« ForrigeFortsæt »
instead of a postponement of payments, and expenditure, as detailed in the baan acceleration of them was the conse- lance-sheet, the truth must be ascertained. quence. Without any increase of actual He was certainly aware, that in a series of expense, therefore, larger payments were years, the cash account could not be made than, under different circumstances, larger than the sums in the Appropriation would have been made, between the 1st acts; but still the best way, in his opinion, of January, 1826, and the 1st of January, was to ascertain by the balance-sheet, 1827. The figures which had been read which was a test more within compass; by his right hon. friend near him were the whereas any inference from the Approbest criterion of the actual expenditure of priation acts, in consequence of their exa single year; and not the paper to which tent, must be less conclusive. the hon. member for Aberdeen adverted, The resolution was agreed to. On the which was a cash account; and the cash resolution, “ That 111,6551. be granted accounts would not afford a just notion of for defraying the charge of the Allowances the expense, unless taken for a succession to the principal Officers of the several of years. He repeated, that it was strange Departments in Great Britain and Ireland, the hon. gentleman should have fallen into their Deputies, Clerks, and contingent this mistake after the clear explanation of Expenses, for the year 1827," the chancellor of the Exchequer.
Mr. Hume observed, that on reading Colonel Davies observed, that there the items of this branch of expenditure, ought to be some explanatory appendix and comparing them with those of former to the papers, to show what the fact was, years, it appeared to him that every thing and to prevent the occurrence of errors. was not going on right. Among other
Mr. Maberly observed, that if he un-charges, there was the sum of 20,0001. derstood the hon. Secretary rightly, the paid to individuals superannuated from balance-sheet, from which his hon. friend the noble lord's own office. The House had read, was only a cash account, show- would do well to inquire in what manner ing the receipts and payments that had these retirements and superannuations taken place at the Exchequer; and that took place. Was the head of an office to it ought not to be dealt with as an accurate turn out whom he pleased, and make room account of the expenditure, because it for whom he pleased, without caring to might contain under the head of disburse what extent the public were burthened by iments larger sums than parliament had the operation? He should be glad to voted for the year. But how did the hear from the noble lord on what ground chancellor of the Exchequer make his the Deputy-secretary at War had retired 'annual statements but from this balance- since last year. What was the amount of sheet? In fact, any other account was his retiring pension ; and on what princidelusive, because this was the cash ac- ple was it granted ? count. They all knew what difficulty Lord Palmerston said, that when the there had been to procure the introduc- hon. gentleman compared the expense of tion of this balance-sheet. Even now the this branch of service with its expense in balance-sheet was not what it ought to be. former yearš, it would be well if he would In some respects it was unintelligible. It also look at its increased efficiency, and purported to be an account of the receipt at the superior despatch and accuracy with and expenditure at the Exchequer; where which the business to which it related was as it contained a number of details re- performed. A great part of the expense specting the funded and unfunded debt. was not optional, but resulted from the These were things which ought to be sepa- increased demands made by parliament rated. If government advanced a large for information on military subjects. Neversum, only a part of which was repaid, that theless, considerable reduction had taken merely made a difference in our debt, and place. In 1814, the annual charge for had nothing to do with the receipt and the Public Departments wàs 253,0001. ; expenditure. On examining this balance- at present, in consequence of the reducsheet it appeared, that, instead of a ba- tions to which he had adverted, it was only lance in our favour of 1,700,0001., there 111,6551. In answer to the hon. gentleman's was a deficiency of 4,500,0001. It was questions, he would merely observe, that therefore inexpedient that the House should when a department, which had been raised depend on the estimates. They might or to a large establishment in consequence of miglit not be correct. But by the receipt a large increase of business, was reduced
in consequence of a reduction of business, At present be admitted that the charge of it was impossible to dismiss persons who Deputy-secretary was apparently a heavy had served long and faithfully without one; but in the course of time—in the some provision. That provision was regu- course of the next ten years for instancelated by a scale of allowance pointed out there would be found to be a considerable in an act of parliament. Of course, when saving to the country in this particular a reduction became necessary, it must be item of charge in the military estimates. left to the head of each department to se- Mr. Hume thought, notwithstanding the lect the individuals, who, in his opinion, explanation given by the noble lord, that might best be spared from his office. If the charge of Deputy-secretary to the that confidence could not be reposed in country was extravagant,
There was a the head of an office, he was not fit for retiring salary of 1,8001. to Mr. Moore, to his situation. He must select those who Mr. Merry 2,5001., to the present Deputycould be spared with the least inconve- secretary 2,0001., so that the charge to nience to the public service. His duty the country for the situation of Deputythen was, to report their names and ser- secretary for the War Department was vices to the Treasury, by whom, and not above 6,0001. The length of service of by him, their retiring allowances were the late Deputy-secretary he was prepared fixed. In the course of this and the last to admit; but he understood that that year, having wound up the arrears of his gentleman was as fit to discharge his duties office, he had been enabled to dispense now as he was twenty years ago.
He with twenty-two appointments. With re- should be glad to know whether the retirespect to the late Deputy-secretary of War, ment of the late Deputy-secretary was a he had served very nearly half a century. voluntary resignation, or whether it was in Next year he would have completed that consequence of a suggestion to him to reterm. A more assiduous and excellent sign his office. public servant never existed. By the pro- Lord Palmerston said, that the resignavisions of the act of parliament, the Trea- tion of that gentleman was certainly a sury were empowered, if an individual had spontaneous one on his part. He had served fifty years, and there were other made the application to him (lord P.), and, grounds for the proceeding, to grant him in consideration of his merits and services, a retiring pension, equivalent to his salary; he had no hesitation in favourably recomand the individual in question, by his age mending that application to the Lords and his services, was fully qualified and of the Treasury. It was true that Mr. entitled to enjoy the advantage. By the Merry had not been half a century in the existing arrangement, he would have been particular situation from which he retired; entitled to the full salary at the end of but it was due to that gentleman to say, fifty years' service; but' a discretionary that on the retirement from the office of power was vested in the Lords of the Mr. Moore in 1809, Mr. Merry sustained, Treasury to apportion a remuneration pro- and sustained voluntarily, a loss of 8001. aportionate to the services of the officer. year, which was to have accrued to him from Accordingly, he had no hesitation in re- a contract into which he had entered for commending the claims of the late Deputy- certain supplies to the garrison of Gibralsecretary to the Lords of the Treasury, tar. Such a surrender on his part was whose merits and whose services entitled deserving of the most favourable considerhim to the most favourable considera- ation, and gave Mr. Merry a claim to any tion. Upon the falling-in of the late indulgence that might be shown him; alDeputy-secretary's situation, it had been though, in his instance, the allowance that determined to reduce the salary of his had been awarded to him was more a successor to 2,0001. a year. By this ar- matter of right than of indulgence, rangement 5001. a year was saved to the Mr. Hume was astonished, after it had public. Then with respect to the princi- been admitted that Mr. Merry had entered pal clerk, whose salary had been 1,2001. a when not of age, and had not seryed the full year; he would have been shortly enti-, time, that he should have been allowed to tled to a retiring salary; but by being retire on the full pension. Instead of any placed in the situation of Deputy-secretary, serious attempt being made to reduce our the salary was sayed to the public, and establishments, there appeared to be a dealso the superannuated pension, to which sire to increase them." Since 1822, the he would have been otherwise entitled... civil establishment particularly had gone on increasing. In 1822 it was 329,0001.; | ment of thirty-eight or forty officers. The this year it amounted to 425,0001. So education which officers of the army rethat not only the military dead weight, ceived was found to be extensively benefibut the civil dead weight, had been gra- cial. Many officers who had been edudually increasing. He thought it was the cated there, and who were afterwards duty of the House to institute a strict in- scattered in different parts of the world, quiry into the cause of this increase, and took surveys of the places in which they to call upon government to redeem the had been, and supplied, in this and in pledge which they had given to make re- other ways, a variety of valuable informatrenchments.
tion. Then, as to staff duties, the imMr. Herries contended, that the act re-provements which had been effected ferred to by his noble friend fully authorised through the Military College were very that exercise of discretion in special cases, important. It was not long ago that an which had been exercised in the case of officer belonging to the Austrian army, Mr. Merry. He could assure the House was employed to give instruction in staff that matters regarding retired allowances duties. Of late, however, it was found were not lightly disposed of at the Trea- that foreign instruction could be altogether sury. The certificates were examined, dispensed with ; and he was happy to be and the claims were investigated, with the enabled to state, that the Military College utmost strictness.
had furnished to the service three quarterMr. Hume understood that twenty-two masters general. It was unfair, therefore, clerks had been reduced in the establish- in the hon. member to select the mere apment of the noble lord last year. He pointments which had taken place from wished to know whether any new appoint- the college within the last year, and to ments of clerks had taken place since that state, that those appointments, independent reduction.
of other advantages, formed the only beneLord Palmerston answered--none. ficial result that accrued from the grant to The resolution was agreed to.
the college. The young gentlemen were On the resolution, “ That 13,2291. be instructed in all the branches of education granted, for defraying the charge of the necessary to qualify them for the profesRoyal Military College, for the year 1827,"sion to which they were destined. It
Mr. Hume observed, that, from the Esti- seemed as if those who objected to this mates it appeared, that there was a charge grant were disposed to fix the proportion for two hundred and sixteen cadets. He of ignorance rather than of knowledge that wished to know how many of these cadets ought to prevail in the army; and to meahad been appointed to commissions ? sure its value not by its improvement, but
Lord Palmerston replied, that sixteen by its deterioration. cadets had been appointed without pur- Mr. Hume admitted that the officers of chase, and twenty-two by purchase. the army ought to be well educated, but
Mr. Hume, then it appears, that the not at the expense of the public. The country is saddled with a charge of charge for the staff of the college was no 13,2291. for the supply of thirty-eight less than 6,0001.; while 7,0001. more were cadets to the army.
annually paid for nurses and other at. Sir H. Hardinge said, that the number tendants. Arithmetic, French, Geograof military students was more than three-phy, and the classics, were, no doubt, imfold the number who obtained situations portant branches of education; but, surely, from the college. The fact was, that it was not necessary to keep up a distinct those who were appointed from the college college for teaching matters which were to underwent a very severe examination, as a be learned in every grammar school of the test of superior qualification. Those who kingdom. Yet, these heavy charges were did not obtain situations from the college, made as if the students came, in forma had all the facility which their family con- pauperis, to be educated from the first nexion and resources might give them to rudiments of knowledge. obtain commissions, and the service was apply this remark to fortification and milibenefited by the advantages of the educa- tary drawing, because they were not altion which they received at the college. ways taught elsewhere; but he thought
Sir Alexander Hope said, that the bene- masters for landscape-painting and expefits arising from the Military College were rimental philosophy not absolutely requinot confined to the mere annual appoint- site for a young cadet. Independent of twenty-three professors paid by the public, sary for the staff officers of such an there were five clerks, nineteen men ser- establishment-a school for a few boys. vants, a housekeeper and nurses, at an ex- He could never consent to this throwing pense of 13,0001. a-year for the educa- away of the public money, and would tion of thirty-eight boys.
move as an amendment, “ That the sum of Lord Palmerston produced a return of 9,0001. be substituted for 13,2291." the number of students admitted into the The Committee divided : For the amendMilitary College, since its first establish- ment 29; against it 107. After some ment in 1802. The total number was further conversation, the several resolutwo thousand nine hundred and twenty- tions were agreed to. eight; of which one thousand three hundred and twenty had received commissions
HOUSE OF COMMONS. in the king's service, and one hundred and twenty in that of the East India company.
Tuesday, February 20. The complete defence furnished by his CANADA CLERGY RESERVES.] Mr. gallant friend rendered it needless for him Wilmot Horton moved for leave to bring in to say another word regarding the public a bill to authorise the Sale of Clergy Reutility of the establishment.
serves in Upper and Lower Canada. The Mr. Monck observed, that the only object of the measure was, he said, to question was, whether the education of enable the corporative of the clergy in these boys ought to be paid for out of the Canada to dispose, by private contract, of taxes. Ought the people to be taxed for the lands reserved for the clergy in 1791 ; the purpose of teaching those who would with respect to which it was originally be quite as well, if not better, taught at arranged that they were to be disposed of the expense of their friends and relations to the Canada Company. By alienating a Let the examination, before appointment, part of the provision appropriated to the still continue as severe as it ought to be, clergy by the Canada act of 1791, the parents would be very glad to qualify their value of the remaining portion would be sons for it, in the expectation of the reward improved, and the country relieved from of a cadetship. Why was it necessary for the expense annually voted for the supply the country to educate its officers any of the Protestant Clergy in that part of the more than its physicians, its lawyers, or world. its divines?
Mr. Stanley supported the motion. The Sir A. Hope said, he thought the cadets short acquaintance he had recently had ought to be educated at the public ex- with the provinces of Canada enabled him pense, because the public called upon the to state, that whatever might be the difparents and friends of those young men to ferences of political and party feeling in devote them to the service of the country; that country-and there was no place and because those young men, abandoning where party feeling ran higher-no person the comforts of a private life, or lucrative entertained a difference of opinion as to professions, were bound, by the pledge of the pernicious tendency of the Clergy their parents, to undergo the hardships of Reserves. When Mr. Pitt brought forthe military profession, and to brave the ward the Canada bill in 1791, he distinctly horrors of various climates.
specified, that the arrangement then made Sir E. Carrington, in answer to the must be subject to such modifications as latter part of the speech of the hon. mem- might afterwards be deemed expedient. ber for Reading, observed, that, by the The experience of thirty-five years had munificence of prelates, of statesmen, and demonstrated not only the inconvenience, of princes, the means of adequate educa- but the absolute mischief, which resulted tion had, from the most remote periods of from that arrangement. The appropria
, our history, been supplied to the profes- tion of Clergy Reserves in Canada had sions of law, physic, and divinity. No operated as a serious obstacle to agriculsuch provision had been made for military tural improvement. The making of roads, education, until this establishment was an object of so much importance to the created, and by that institution a chasm colony, was checked by this arrangement; had been honourably and most properly for, as every man was obliged to make filled up:
roads through his own estate, where these Mr. Hume said, that no man could con- reserves occurred, the progress of roadscientiously say, that 6,0001. was neces- making was either arrested, or the burthen
thrown upon the owner of the contiguous wished the House to be aware of the state land.
in which the church of England stood in Mr. Hume expressed his satisfaction at Canada; for he was persuaded there was the measure proposed by the hon. Secre- not a man of common sense in the country, tary. Nothing tended more to check the who would not say, that, instead of proprogress of improvement in Canada, than moting the interests of the church of Engthe allotment of land to the clergy. He land, by making a provision for it in should be glad to know the details of the Canada, we were placing it in a position new arrangement made between his ma- to be scouted by that legislative assembly, jesty's government and the Canada com- of which two members only belonged to pany. He trusted also, that these reserved that church, one of those members being lands would be disposed of by some public his majesty's Attorney-general. With mode of purchase, so as to enable the respect to the arrangement for disposing proprietors of the adjoining lands to be of the church Reserves, he entirely coneome purchasers. By these means, im- curred in the expediency of that measure. provements in the cultivation of land, and Mr. W. Horton obscrved, in explanation, in the making of roads, would be more that whether the distribution of lands to rapidly carried on.
which the hon. member alluded, was right Mr. W. Horton observed, that measures or wrong, it was done under the express would be taken to make it imperative on authority of, and in obedience to the prothe clergy to co-operate in the making of visions of the Canada Act, and could not, roads, and in carrying other improvements therefore now be called in question. All into effect. The lands in question were they proposed to do at present was, to the property of the church of England, as dispose of a certain portion of those lands, secured to that church by the Canada act in order that they might render the reof 1791.
mainder more productive. With respect Mr. Baring said, he entertained strong to what had fallen from an hon. member objections to the appropriation of land in upon the subject of the expense of emigraCanada specifically to the church of Eng- tion, he begged to observe, that there were land; not because he objected to the church many parishes in England most willing to of England, for he was as zealous a member pay half the expense of the removal of of that church as any gentleman in that their paupers in that way, without any House, but because he was anxious that hope of being repaid. the House should not sow the seeds of that Mr. Warburton thought, that in these very dissention which we now so lament times, it would have been better to make ably deplored in Ireland. If we could appropriations of land for the diffusion of contrive some means to make all the people education, rather than for the support of of Canada church of England men, he the church. The act of parliament reshould have no objection to such an ex- served one-seventh part of the lands for pedient; but if the fact were, that the the maintenance of the established church ; church of England had taken but slight but he wished to know whether it was not root in Canada, and that the mass of the intention of government to dispose of Protestant Christians in that country were the produce of some of those lands, to of different persuasions, by appropriating educate the poor emigrants they were money and land to the church of England about to convey to Canada. It was not in Canada, we should be laying a founda- too late to revise the act; and he would tion for future dissention, and for the most earnestly recommend them to do so, separation of the colony from the mother as well as to adopt some measures with country. The Attorney-general for Upper respect to the importation of Canada corn. Canada had been examined on the subject He would remind them of the expressions of these church Reserves; and, in answer used by a great philosopher, a great polito a question, as to how many members of tical economist, and the founder of a great the legislative assembly in Upper Canada empire, the celebrated Dr. Franklin, in his were church of England men, his answer interviews with a noble lord.
That great was“ two, he being one of the two.” Now, man, in speaking of the colonists, observed, he did not know of how many members | " That if they were to sow and to reap, the legislative assembly consisted; but it and yet not be allowed to ship, the sooner could scarcely be a number of which two the government of this country sent out formed any considerable portion. He transports to bring the people home again,