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of departments all pulling at the Treasury, having resolved itself into a Committee of which exercised no control over them. If Supply, to which the Ordnance Estimates this was the case, it would be the bounden were referred, duty of the House to interfere, and apply Sir H. Hardinge said, that in presenta remedy to the evil, before it obtained ing the Ordnance Estimates to the comgreater ascendancy. Honourable gentle-mittee, it would not be necessary for him men often said, postpone the Estimates to detain them with many observations, till after the Budget; but it was difficult inasmuch as the estimates were considerto make up the Budget at so early a ably lower than they had been last year. period. He thought the present mode The reductions which had been made, had of proceeding the most safe and conve- not been made without great difficulty; nient. Before assigning what was to be and it would only be misleading the comspent, it was necessary to know what they mittee if he were to hold out to it any had to spend. The government of no hope that those reductions would be percountry could be strengthened by exhaust-manent. The Ordnance Estimates for ing its finances, or by stretching its exer- the present year were only 970,8941.; last tions beyond its powers. A country year they were 1,007,6711.; so that they could not be strengthened by an army were 36,7771. less this year than they costing 8,000,0001., if it could afford only were last. In presenting these estimates 6,000,0001. It was in vain for ministers last year, he had mentioned to the comto say, that this or that island wanted mittee, that the master-general of the a garrison : the answer was, we cannot Ordnance intended, in the course of the afford to support the island. This, how- year, to propose an augmentation of seven ever, was not the state of this country, for hundred men to the artillery, by making it was able to keep all its colonies, pro- the companies to consist of eighty instead vided the finances were kept in a proper of seventy men each. The inconvenience, condition. He differed from much that however, which was felt from the want of had been said about the sinking fund. this additional force of artillery-men, must He congratulated the country upon its continue to be felt for some time longer, having such a fund. What would have and the proposed augmentation must be been the situation of the country, if, upon deferred till the next year. In the extraany falling off in the revenue, or excess ordinaries, the estimates amounted to of expenses, it had no excess of income, 223,5321.: last year they amounted to or, in other words, it had no sinking 228,6881.; so that there was a diminution fund? With an income and expenditure in that head of expense for the present of about 50,000,0001., if there were not year of 5,1361. In the unprovided head a surplus revenue, or sinking fund, of of account, which last year amounted to 5,000,0001., accidental necessities could | 1,7131., and this year amounted to 4,6521., not be met. A stronger proof could not there was an increase of 2,9391., occahave occurred, than that afforded in the sioned by sending out the necessary suppresent year; for, with all the defalcation ply of brass and iron mortars for the preof income, there was still some excess servation of life from shipwreck, accordover expenditure. But for this excess, ing to captain Manby's apparatus, and by the debt must have been increased. He replacing certain engineer's stores, arms, should not object to going into the esti- and accoutrements, that had been lost by mates at present, as he did not imagine shipwreck in the West Indies. That head that any harm could arise from their con- of charge had been cut down as low as senting to do so. He hoped, however, possible by the committee, and it was that ministers would come down as soon the desire of the master-general to keep as possible with a statement of their finan- it in its present state of reduction. As to cial plans for the year; and he was quite Ireland, the estimates for this year were certain that the House would assist them | 126,3821.: last year they were 130,5491. ; in maintaining those establishments which so that there was a diminution of 4,1671. were necessary to support the honour and in the estimates of this
year. The expendignity of the country.
diture for Ireland had, for the three or The amendment was then negatived four last years, been nearly the same. without a division.
There was, however, this year, an addi
tional sum taken on account of the Irish Ordnance Estimates.] The House 1 survey, which he would briefly explain to
the committee. The sum taken last year | sive repairs in the old one. As to the to promote this object, was 27,6901.; this estimate for military stores for Great Briyear it would be 30,0001. The additional tain, Ireland, and the colonies, it was sum was required by a new company that 135,2051. for the present year; last year had been recently added to the two com- it was 164,4161. ; so that this year it was panies of sappers and miners already in 29,2111. less than it was last. That rethat company
The experiment of em- duction had arisen in the following way: ploying common soldiers upon a survey of the House had come to a determination to this nature had been most successful, and allow each soldier in barracks an iron bedthe system of taking men, who a few stead, instead of hutting four of them, as months ago could scarcely read or write, was formerly the case, in one wooden to employ them in measuring roads, and crib. The change had been productive of marking out the line of streams, was work- the most beneficial effects, on both the ing in a manner that was calculated to health and the morals of our soldiery, and confer benefit on the public, and credit on had saved a vast consumption of life in the parties who had suggested it. The those who were stationed in warm latisurvey was proceeding with the utmost tudes. This year a less sum would be rapidity. The officer engaged in super- taken for these bedsteads than formerly ; intending it hoped that it would be per- and hence the diminution which he had formed within the time specified; and he pointed out to the committee. The last was happy to say, that when it was com- part of the estimate to which he wished pleted, it would be a splendid specimen of to call their attention, was the supplementopographical accuracy. The maps would tary estimate for the military works in the be published as fast as possible, and would colonies. The grant proposed this year be sold at a price not much exceeding the was 217,0001., and was greater than it price of ordinary maps. The charge of was last year. He had last year explained barracks for Great Britain was this year to the committee, that though this was an 115,2491. ; last year it was 147,0871.; so additional item in the Ordnance Estithat there was a diminution in this charge mates, it was only a transfer to the Ordsince the last year of 31,8381. He would nance from the army extraordinaries and beg the attention of the committee whilst the colonial department. Though the he stated how this diminution had arisen. master-general was most anxious to dimiLast year the House had voted 25,0001. nish the expenditure under this head, for the king's-mews barracks. A like sum there were certain military works which it was to have been asked for this year; was requisite, at any expense, to put but as the adjoining buildings could not upon a proper foundation. The heaviest be removed in time for the erection of charge was for the new works in the citanew ones during the ensuing year, the del of Quebec: 12,0001. had been taken call for this would be deferred till the for them annually for some years back. next. Next year the barrack estimate This year it was proposed to take 25,0001., would be increased in the same proportion and for this reason: In autumn, before as it was now diminished. The charge the winter set in, it was necessary to erect for barracks in Ireland was this year a solid work of masonry over the works 117,0771.; last year it was 124,6361.; so that were left incomplete, to protect them that there was a diminution in the esti- from the severity of the weather; and in mate of the present year of 7,5591. He spring it was necessary to displace that could not hold out any hope that there solid work of masonry, before the works would be any diminution in this part of commenced in the preceding year could the estimates, for many of the barracks in be continued. A great loss of time and Ireland at this moment required to be expense was thus incurred in building up made wind and water tight. There was and pulling down that which was ultia charge of 10,0001. in the barrack esti- mately of no use to the works erected. mate for Ireland this year, for the purpose It was therefore determined, that whatof erecting a new recruiting dépôt in ever work should hereafter be erected in Dublin. The old dépôt was so inadequate Canada, should be erected, if possible, to the purposes for which it was intended, in one season, as it was clear that the and in such a state of progressive dilapi- sooner the work was executed, the less dation, that it was deemed wiser to erect was the expense. It was on that account a new building, than to make the exten- that he proposed to take 30,0001. this year for this work, instead of 12,0001., | intention to erect a line of forts on the which he had taken in former years. In river St. Lawrence. He wished to know three years the work, he expected, would whether these projects were to be carried be completed. There was, on the whole, on without any information being given to à reduction of 104,0001. on the present the House on the subject? estimate, as compared with the estimate Sir H. Hardinge answered, that it was of last year; and he hoped the committee necessary to form a proper dépôt in Lower would feel gratified with that reduction, Canada, where, at present, there was not a especially as there was an increase of place in which they could keep a canister numbers in part of the establishment of powder in safety. With respect to the With regard to the resolution for defray- second point, no intention existed to form ing the salaries of the principal officers of such a line of defence as the hon. member the Ordnance, the amount specified in had alluded to. In the course of the year it was lower than the estimate of last 1825, a commission which had been sent year by 3,1761. This reduction was occa- to that country recommended that, at sioned in consequence of the last master certain points, works should be raised; general not drawing any salary from that but the defence of so extensive a frontier department since he became commander- as had been mentioned was not contemin-chief. The gallant officer concluded plated. There were, undoubtedly, parts of by moving, “That the sum of 48,4761. be that territory which required additional
, granted, for defraying the salaries to the defence. With respect to Halifax, for inlieutenant-general, and the rest of the stance, it was recommended, that quarters principal officers and clerks belonging to should be provided for a body of troops, the office of Ordnance at the Tower and and a proper building erected for the rePall-Mall, for the year 1827."
ception of a quantity of stores. These Mr. Hume observed, that, looking to the measures appeared to be necessary; bewhole of the estimate, there was not such cause, if an enemy turned the sea-batteries, à saving to the country as they had a right as the place was at present situated, the to expect. At the conclusion of the former town must fall into his power. Besides, as peace, 18,0001. defrayed the expense of Canada was locked up during a certain the artillery establishment at the Tower, period of the year, it was proper that stores and the military establishment in West- should be collected in places of safety. In minster, but they now cost 96,0001. If Upper Canada, it was intended to erect a these two establishments were united, it small work on the same model, of which an would effect a saving of at least 48,0001. estimate would be furnished. It was not He wished to know whether it was intended intended as a point d'appui, but as a to unite them?
military dépôt, where troops and stores Sir H. Hardinge admitted, that if such might be established. As to a regular line a union could be made, a saving would of defence along the river St. Lawrence, unquestionably be effected by it. But no such thing was intended. Before any the thing was perfectly impossible; and part of this recommendation was carried for this reason—the military stores, arms, into effect, the total amount of the pro&c. were kept at the Tower, and must jected work would be estimated by the remain there. The finance committee, it master-general, and the House would have was true, mentioned the dépôt at Wool- an opportunity of at once discussing and wich as sufficient; but, he was prepared deciding the question. to contend, that it would be necessary, Mr. Hume observed, that the items on under all circumstances, to keep a large account of Canada amounted to no less quantity of stores at the Tower. If they a sum than 51,4751. This was rather could remove the office of the Clerk of the strange, after they had been told last Ordnance to Pall-Mall, there would also be night, that Canada was the finest country a saving ; but the rooms at Pall-Mall were in the world: that it was rich in every already filled with clerks; and therefore, species of produce; and yet, rich as it if an alteration were inade, a new building was, poor England was obliged to find must be erected. Thus in the very outset, money to support it. The inhabitants, it a considerable expense would be incurred. appeared, could not pay for the defence of
Mr. Baring alluded to a rumour which their country. We had a losing trade he had heard of certain works that were with Canada; and we were likewise at the going on in Lower Canada, and also of an expense of keeping up forts to protect that
losing trade. The only chance of deriving rupted by much noise, and cries of “Quesbenefit from the produce of that country tion.” The hon, member then sat down was destroyed by the operation of the Corn- for the purpose of allowing those who laws.
wished to prevent any further discussion of Sir H. Hardinge said, that Canada, the question, an opportunity to state their being an integral part of the British objections. There not seeming, however, dominions, was as much entitled to pro- to be any disposition to take that course, tection as any other portion of the empire. and it being intimated that he was about
Mr. Hume said Canada was but a to propose another amendment, the hon. colony, and stood in a very different situa- gentleman was allowed to proceed. He tion from Ireland or Scotland.
began by observing, that he hoped those After some further conversation, the hon. members who were not endowed with several resolutions were agreed to. patience enough to hear what he had to say,
would take the opportunity to leave the
House. Although they might feel uneasy HOUSE OF COMMONS.
to have their time occupied by such disMonday, February 19.
cussions, or feel a disregard of the public GRANTS TO THE DUKE AND DUCHESS interest, he hoped they would not blame Of CLARENCE.] The Resolutions of the him for a conscientious intention to do committee of the whole House on the what he considered his duty. It was his King's Message were brought up. On wish to prevent what he considered an unthe motion, " That the Resolutions be now necessary waste of the public money; and read a second time,"
he would take the liberty of stating briefly The Marquis of Tavistock said, that he why he thought that they ought not to should not discharge the duty which he expend one shilling upon the purposes to owed to his constituents, or consult the which they were now called upon to give real interest of the Crown itself, if he did their assent. When there was a deficiency not oppose the present motion. He would in the revenue of four millions and a half not go so far as to say, that this grant of to meet the charges of the year, was that 9,0001. a year was likely to be much felt a time to propose such an extravagant by the country, even in its present state of grant? Were they to keep the members of distress; but he would say, that consider the royal family wallowing in wealth, at a ing the circumstances under which it was time when so many thousands were dying proposed—considering the present state of for want of food? Were they to take the the country, and the reductions which had beds from under those miserable wretches been actually made in the salaries of many by warrants of distress, in order to make up public servants, who had nothing but their an enormous sum to be wasted in heartless salaries to support themhe did think that, expense, under the name of the necessary to say the least of it, it was one of the grandeur of royalty? He had taken the most indecent and most ill-timed proposi- trouble to look over the Civil List, and he tions he ever remembered during his par- found that it amounted last year to the liamentary experience. He was perfectly enormous sum of 1,057,0001. Of that astonished, that the chancellor of the Ex- unnecessary waste, 364,0001. were paid for chequer, who had really a character to pensions, and no less than 246,0001. to lose, could have lent himself to such a defray the expenses of the junior branches proposition. He returned his most cordial of the royal family, which would be inthanks to his noble friend, the member for creased to 255,0001. by the addition of the Northamptonshire, for the upright and 9,0001, which they were now about to uncompromising spirit with which he had grant. If the duke of Clarence had any discharged his public duty, and he should family, or was placed in a condition to certainly take the sense of the House on require such sums, there might be an apothe present motion.
logy for the present addition to his income ; The House divided : For the Resolu- but he had already a yearly grant of above tions 173, Against them 57. Majority 29,0001. His family received every year 116. The Chancellor of the Exchequer 2,5001, from the 4 per cent fund; and then moved, “ That a Bill be brought in all that was exclusive of his professional úpon the said Resolutions."
income, which amounted to 1,0001. a-year. Mr. Hume rose, and was proceeding to It was not altogether the magnitude of the address the House, when he was inter- sum of 9,0001. to which he objected : it
was the insult which such a grant, at the stood in that altered situation, and had present time, conveyed to the feelings of succeeded to those important relations to every man in the country who was suffering the Throne, which called for the support from distress. It was the sure way to of every man who valued the welfare of make the heir presumptive unpopular; the illustrious family, of which his royal and ministers could not have invented any highness was a member, or the dignity course more likely to place him at variance and honour of the Crown, to which he with public opinion. The hon. member, was so near in point of succession. One after ridiculing the idea of such a sum as word as to what the hon. member for 9,0001. being required for those charitable Aberdeen had said about the insult to the purposes, which the chancellor of the Ex- sufferings of the country, which would be chequer had enlarged upon, concluded by conveyed by this addition of 9,0001. a year moving, as an amendment, which he de- to the duke of Clarence's income. În a clared no man could fulfil his duty without country, where the public expenditure supporting—“That, taking into considera- amounted to about sixty millions annually tion the present distressed state of the —where about half that sum was made shipping, manufacturing, and commercial applicable yearly to the payınent of the interests; the distressed state of the public debt—where, during the last war, working classes, and the alarming defi- no less than thirteen millions, and, in the ciency in the public revenue, this House last year only, as much as five millions does not deem it expedient to add to the had been appropriated for a sinking fund, burthens of the people, by increasing the to prop up a particular interest—in such pension of his royal highness the duke of a country, to talk of the grant of 9,0001. Clarence, who already enjoys a clearincome a year to a man in his royal highness's from the Consolidated Fund, of 29,5001. situation, was neither more nor less than per annum, exclusive of his professional a gross delusion upon the public. He income.”
must also object to this being considered Mr. Maurice Fitzgerald said, he anti- as a question of monarchy. As to the cipated for the vote he was about to give United States of America, and the exthe same severe chastisement from the penses of their government and executive hon. member for Aberdeen, which he had —if the superior advantages of their inthat night, and on a former evening, stitutions were to be made a question, as given to those who had brought forward contrasted with those of the British monthe proposition now before the House. archy, he did trust that that question at That'hon. gentleman had characterized it least would not be raised upon this grant in very unmeasured terms: he had charged of 9,0001. a year to the presumptive heir it with profligacy, extortion, and insult. to the Crown. If such a question was to He had gone so far, even, as to declare it be introduced for discussion in that House, injurious to the shipping and manufac- he hoped that, among all the aggravated turing interests. Now, for his own part, topics which could be brought forward he must say, that a more exaggerated with the view of enforcing the preferable stateinent he had never heard, nor had he nature of a republic as contrasted with a ever listened to a more unnecessary dis- monarchy, the admiration of the national play of vehement oratory. For the reso- economy attaching to the former would lution itself, taking it independently of all never cause it to be gravely discussed exaggeration and colouring, it did strike there, whether it would be improper to him as being a very fair and natural pro- make such an allowance as that proposed position to be made on the part of his in favour of his royal highness, when his majesty's government, from the first altered and very peculiar station was conmoment that his royal highness succeeded sidered. Believing, as he did, that that to the station which he at present occu- station had become most materially altered pied. It had been asked, in what con- and that his royal highness was entitled to sisted the difference of station which his have such an addition made to his income, royal highness had so experienced? But he should cheerfully support the vote. In he believed, that the common sense of doing so, he was tempted to observe, that every man in that House must instantly there was no man in that House who, supply the answer to such a question; and during a long political existence, had he, for one, required no official reply upon shewn a more perfect disregard of adulathe matter. His royal highness. now tion, addressed either to men in power or