mitted to the enjoyment of their property; a participation in every civil and focial bleffing, and even fharing in the right of voting for members of parliament. Nor were the people of Ireland infenfible or ungrateful for the benefits they had received: their good difpofitions, and contentment with their fituation, he inferred from fundry circumftances, particularly, their readinefs to refift and repel the threatened invafion. With regard to the mifchievous tendency of the motion, lord Grenville remarked a diftinction between the fubject of this, and the cafes of common intereft, ftated by lord Moira, which were fair objects of negociation. The motion was intended to be applied to the internal state of Ireland, and even, if he underflood it rightly, to the frame of its independent legiflature. Though the Eritish legiflature had reftrained parliament from entertaining any bill which pretended, in any degree, to bind the inhabitants of Ireland; their lordships were now called upon to interfere in a point moft exclufively relating to the internal state of that country. Such an interference was obviously improper: it was, befides, impoffible for them to proceed with fufficient information, which lay much more within the reach of their own legislature. Farther ftill, the interference of the British legifla ture, instead of remedying the difcontents, which were alleged to prevail, would inflame them. would induce the people of Ireland to imagine that their own legiflature was indifferent to their welfare, and thus ftir up the divifions which it was its object to appease. As the British legiflature had given to Ireland the bleflings of a free conftitution, the best way to fix their attachment to it, was, to engage their confidence in its favour. The earl Fitzwilliam admitted the improved ftate of Ireland. But whatever circumftances might have contributed to that profperity, ftill there might remain room for fomething farther to be done. The noble fecretary had faid, that the people of Ireland were not diftracted and difcontented, but tranquil and happy. Was it a proof of this, that acts of indemnity had been passed, in the Irifn parliament, for proceedings beyond the law, which muft have been called for by a conduct not very confiftent with tranquil lity. If no circumftances of dif order appeared, why were whole parishes, baronies, and even counties, declared to be out of the king's peace? It was likewife ftated, in the proceedings of the government in Ireland, that they were, in certain diftricts, difarming the people, from which it was evident they had been in arms. The earl of Liverpool, after repeating and approving the reafoning of lord Grenville, put the cafe of a motion being made, in the Irish parliament, for the purpose of inducing it to interfere in the difcuffion of the great queftion of parliamentary reform, or Catholic toleration in this country. How, he afked, would fuch a motion be taken by the British parliament ? The motion, before their lordship's, It feemed to him to be as mifchievous in its tendency, as unconftitutional in its principle, wherefore he would give it his most decided negative. The earl of Moira granted, that the legiflature of Ireland was independent, but ftill maintained, that 1 in every matter where the common interefts of both countries was concerned, the British legiflature had a right to interfere. He admitted, alfo, the advantages which Ireland had enjoyed, under the aufpicious reign of his prefent majefty. But why fhould it be forgotten, that, notwithstanding all the generous liberality which the Irish had experienced from their fovereign, there was ftill a part of the boon unbestowed? Was the houfe to be informed that the catholics of Ireland infifted on their right of being elected members of the legiflature, on the ground, that, if they had fome of their body in parliament, the perfecutions which have exifted would not have taken place? But here, perhaps, it would be faid, that he was fpeaking of perfecutions as vaguely as he had done of difcontents; and that the one had as little foundation as the other. He knew, however, - no fewer than ninety-one houfe-holders who had been banished from one of his own eftates, after being plundered of their property, and fome of them wounded in their perfons. Of the existence of difcontents he enumerated many proofs of the fame kind with thofe that had been ftated by the earl Fitzwilliam. The earl of Guildford could not admit that minifters had fhewn any attention to the interefts of Ireland, fince the recal of the earl Fitzwilliam. If the advice propofed was not neceffary to the king, of whofe paternal care for his people he entertained no doubt, it was highly requifite to his minifters. The earl Spencer was of opinon, that, if lord Moira meant to do any fubftantial good by his motion, he ought to have gone much farther, VOL. XXXIX. and pointed out not only the nature of the difcontents of the Irish nation, but the kind of measures which ought to be reforted to for removing them. The marquis of Lansdowne faid, that, if the prefent was a fubject of delicacy, minifters were the caufe of it. There was nobody lefs inclined to queftion, or to in fringe upon, the independence of the Irish legiflature than he was; but there was a great difference between infringing upon that independence and acting in their capacity, as the great hereditary council of the king The doctrine, which minifters had held forth, he was inclined to think, was much more calculated to foment jealoufies between the two legiflatures than the motion of the noble lord, were it carried into effect. The lord-lieutenant of Ireland, as a minifter, was accountable to the British as well as to the Irish parliament; and, therefore, they had a right to watch over the meafures of his adminiftration, and to cenfure or advife him as they might deem proper. The noble fecretary had entered into a pompous and elaborate difplay of the advantages which Ireland had enjoyed under the reign of the prefent king. But he would ask him, whether the immunities which had been granted to Ireland had not been fully juftified by the confequences; and that, too, after they had been refufed by their own legiflature? It was in the recollection of almost every noble lord, that, when a petition was prefented to the Irish parliament, by a numerous and refpecable body of that kingdom, the prayer of it was rejected, with fomething little fhort of indignation; butt when deputies were fent over to [R] this this country, they were gracioufly received, and their miffion was attended with its defired effect. He confeffed, that, upon the ftate of Ireland, he did not poffefs fuch accurate information as fome of their lordships, but he had heard that fome of the catholics had formerly been perfecuted, by the proteftants, in a horrid manner; that the former had been driven, by a fmall number of the latter, from their habitations in the north, but were now returning; that the proteftants were now rebuilding thofe houfes that had been deftroyed, and that an union was now forming between them, which, if not attended to in time, might be productive of the most alarming effects. There were two defcriptions of men in Ireland: the firft defcription were well known for their daring fpirit; there were not wanting perfons among them celebrated in arms, in arts, and even in literature; they were men over whom courts could never have any influence, and who were to be led, not driven-fuch were the men in the north of Ireland. The whole fouth was characterized by unruly paffions, which were always the prominent features of men unemployed. What the event might be, it was impoffible to fay; he warn ed them, however, that it might be fuch as to shake the empire to its centre! and was a fubject which involved fuch confequences to be fet afide by a few words about the independence of the Irish parliameni? an expreffion, which, till of late years, used never to be heard of from minifiers! The motion now before their lordships was couched in terms fo wife, fo prudent, and fo moderate, that he could fcarcely have fuppofed that it could have been objected to. What was its purpofe? It faid, to his majesty, fire, you have, by a happy conduct, attached the people of Ireland to your family and government, by the fame liberal and generous conduct by which your grandfather gained the affections of the Highlands of Scotland. There is but one fmall caufe of difcontent ftill remaining, and it is only neceffaty that you follow up thofe wife and falutary measures, which you have hitherto acted upon, to remove it." This was all that the motion propofed. If it was done in time, the meafures might be fuccefsful; but it ought to be recollected, that the longer the delay, the greater the danger. The earl of Darnley obferved, that the motion before their lordfhips, though couched in very general terms, and not appearing in itself to point to any fpecific object, yet, by the explanation given of it, by the lords who fpoke in its favour, evidently pointed to the emancipation (as it was called) of the catholics. He thought there might be cafes in which their lordships interference might be juftifiable, but that the prefent was not one of them. There were discontents in Ireland; but by no means among the general mafs of the people. The popular cry of catholic emancipation was made ufe of for covering defigns for fubverting government. The duke of Bedford was forry to fay, that their lordships had too often liftened to the trifling arguments and shifts of minifters, when any charge was exhibited against them, in that houfe. They muft cease to liften to thefe fhifts, if it was was their object to fave the ftate from ruin. But it might be asked, what it was that he thought likely to reftore happiness to the people of Ireland?" Reftore to the people of Ireland the perfon you have recalled; give back to them the man whom they have tried, and whom they admire; act on the principles on which he acted, and then difcontents will ceafe: if fyou do not, God only knows into how much more dreadful a ftate that unhappy country may be reduced." Lord Grenville was of opinion, that the remedy, propofed by the noble duke, would have a tendency to create that which he feemed to dread a difturbance in Ireland; for, that must neceffarily be the tendency of recalling the prefent lord-lieutenant of that kingdom. If the talents, the virtues, and the exertions, of that noble lord were not fufficient to preferve the tranquillity of Ireland, he believed it would be out of the power of any other individual whatever. The earl of Moira rofe up to make a few obfervations on the main point in queftion: the contentment or difcontentment of the people of Ireland. As their lordfhips could not try the veracity of one noble lord against another, the only way they had to decide, was, to refer to facts. His lordship again appealed to the various facts already mentioned or alluded to, by himself and the earl Fitzwilliam: parishes and whole counties out of the king's peace, and difarmed: infurrections in divers places, murmurs of difcontent in all; and a general affembly, within fifty yards of the caftle of Dublin, headed by perfons whose talents and characters were of the very first class, and who, after the moft mature delibe ration that could be had on such an occafion, refolved and declared it to be their firm perfuafion, that there was no chance for the falvation of Ireland, without an intire and immediate change in the whole fyftem of executive government. After this, the house divided; and the noble earl's motion was rejected by 72 against 20. Two days after this decifion, in the houfe of peers, the fame fubject, that is, the general ftate of Ireland was introduced, into the house of commons, by Mr. Fox, who prefaced his fpeech by calling to mind the part he had taken in a recognition of the complete independence of Ireland, and how much he naturally confidered himself to be bound, in a particular manner, to follow up the principle on which it was founded. Though a variety of circumftances had concurred to produce the prefent disturbances in Ireland, he confined his obfervations to two or three leading points. Thefe were, whether, in confequence of the conceffions that had been made to Ireland, she had, in fact and fubftance, enjoyed the advantages of an independent legiflature? Whether, in that form of a free conftitution which they obtained, the people poffeffed that political weight to which they were entitled? And, whether, their just voice and influence had been promoted, by the alteration which had been effected? The people of Ireland were divided into two, though these unequal, claffes, the catholics and the proteftants: neither of which enjoyed their juft fhare of political power and influence. About nine years ago, a regular fyftem was deviled for enflaving this country, they were gracioufly received, and their miffion was attended with its defired effect. He confeffed, that, upon the ftate of Ireland, he did not poffefs fuch accurate information as fome of their lordships, but he had heard that fome of the catholics had formerly been perfecuted, by the proteftants, in a horrid manner; that the former had been driven, by a fmall number of the latter, from their habitations in the north, but were now returning; that the proteftants were now rebuilding thofe houfes that had been deftroyed, and that an union was now forming between them, which, if not attended to in time, might be productive of the moft alarming effects. There were two defcriptions of men in Ireland: the firft defcription were well known for their daring fpirit; there were not wanting perfons among them celebrated in arms, in arts, and even in literature; they were men over whom courts could never have any influence, and who were to be led, not driven-fuch were the men in the north of Ireland. The whole fouth was characterized by unruly paffions, which were always the prominent features of men unemployed. What the event might be, it was impoffible to fay; he warn ed them, however, that it might be fuch as to shake the empire to its centre! and was a fubject which involved fuch confequences to be fet afide by a few words about the independence of the Irish parliameni? an expreffion, which, till of late years, ufed never to be heard of from minifters! The motion now before their lordships was couched in terms fo wife, fo prudent, and fo moderate, that he could fcarcely have fuppofed that it could have been objected to. What was its purpofe? It faid, to his majesty, "fire, you have, by a happy conduct, attached the people of Ireland to your family and government, by the fame liberal and generous conduct by which your grandfather gained the affections of the Highlands of Scotland. There is but one fmall caufe of discontent still remaining, and it is only neceffary that you follow up thofe wife and falutary measures, which you have hitherto acted upon, to remove it." This was all that the motion propofed. If it was done in time, the meafures might be fuccefsful; but it ought to be recollected, that the longer the delay, the greater the danger. The earl of Darnley obferved, that the motion before their lordfhips, though couched in very general terms, and not appearing in itself to point to any specific object, yet, by the explanation given of it, by the lords who fpoke in its favour, evidently pointed to the emancipation (as it was called) of the catholics. He thought there might be cafes in which their lordships interference might be juftifiable, but that the prefent was not one of them. There were discontents in Ireland; but by no means among the general mafs of the people. The popular cry of catholic emancipation was made ufe of for covering defigns for fubverting government. The duke of Bedford was forry to fay, that their lordships had too often liftened to the trifling arguments and shifts of minifters, when any charge was exhibited againft them, in that houfe. They muft cease to liften to thefe fhifts, if it was |