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with energy, without which our commerce with the Black Sea would be entirely sacrificed, the independence of these brave men would ultimately become a dead letter, and the noble Lord's Government would do much to advance a power which had proved itself most inimical to British interests, and more particularly to British commerce in the Black Sea. He greatly deplored the speech of the noble Lord the other night. It was with great regret that he heard him let fall the declaration, that although the integrity of Cracow was guaranteed by France and England by solemn treaty, and that although that treaty was violated while the commerce of Cracow by that violation was annihilated — though this was all proved, and though the noble Lord had pledged himself to send a commercial agent to Cracow-in the face of all this, he lamented to hear the noble Lord say, that as Russia, Austria, and Prussia were powerful, it was necessary to act with prudence-that though they had violated a treaty to which we were parties, yet it would be unjustifiable to plunge the

only could not succeed with a negotiation | treaty, Government was prepared to act for a commercial treaty, but was unable to obtain the liquidation of claims admitted to be in no manner doubtful claims which remained still pending, to the eternal disgrace of the country for which these men had fought, and also, he must add, of the country which had sent them to pour out their blood like water, for a dynasty which made them so ungrateful a return? His noble Friend had refrained from alluding to the great question of the East, more especially with reference to the Black Sea; but he could promise the noble Lord, that this subject would be submitted to the notice of the House early in the next Session. An opportunity had then occurred, of which the noble Lord might have availed himself to advance the commercial interests of this country, and to which the Foreign-office had by no means attended with the due degree of care. Some time since, a discussion had arisen in that House with reference to the treaty of Unkiar 'Skelessi, and the particular position in which that treaty placed England with respect to Russia, Turkey, and Austria. Since that treaty had been made, he had never un-nation into war-because, in fact, they derstood that the noble Lord had given his assent to it. In the affair of the Vixen, it was always extremely difficult to ascertain the noble Lord's real opinion. Up to the present time the opinion of the Foreign-office remained in obscurity as to whether Russia obtained possession of the coast of Circassia by the 6th article of that treaty, and whether we were not excluded from the whole coast of Abasia. Whether the Turks had a right to cede it, or the Russians to take possession of it, was a question that was likely to be set at rest by the continued exertions of that magnificent race of men-he could give them no other title. If the invaders were driven from the stronghold of which they had unjustly possessed themselves, and the whole of that line of coast, 200 miles in extent, were opened to British commerce, he should be glad to hear from the noble Lord whether it were his intention, and the intention of his Government, to admit the validity of this secret article in the treaty of Unkiar 'Skelessi, and shut up the Dardanelles against English commerce, by which it had already received such material detriment, as instanced in the Vixen affair. He should be glad to

were strong, the Government should be satisfied with mere demonstrations. What was this but holding out to the world that where a nation was weak, as in the case of Naples, the British Government would act with great energy; but that, in such cases as those of Cracow, Buenos Ayres, and Mexico, they would act with great caution? Though he did not believe the noble Lord would be capable of carrying out a policy so painful to the feelings of Englishmen, yet such a speech as that of the noble Lord would lead foreigners to imagine that powerful nations might injure and insult us, as in the case of Cracow, or the insult given by the French to our flag in Mexico, or the gum trade at Portendic, with the most perfect impunity; that we would, in fact, submit to any insults rather than go to war-insults which, in the time of England's greatness, would not be submitted to for a moment. The noble Lord took credit for the settlement of the Mexican question, but then it took two years to obtain that settlement, during which the British merchants connected with that country suffered severely. Neither was the question much touched upon relative to the opium and

tainly taking active steps, but while he was fighting the Chinese, the English merchants, and still more the Parsee merchants, were exposed to very great suffering. The noble Lord might rely upon it, that very early in the next Session of Parliament, he would be called upon to give a much more explanatory account of the foreign policy of the Go

vernment.

Mr. Hawes had hoped, that the noble Lord, the Member for Liverpool, would have suggested something valuable in the way of taking off restrictions, or altering our own tariffs with a view to improving the commerce of the country. But the noble Lord's speech was most extraordinary, for though a Member for a great commercial town, he had absolutely suggested nothing of the sort. He had talked of Mexico and of Spain, and would have this country proceed by blockade with respect to Mexico, and by retaliatory duties with respect to Spain. He congratulated the people of Liverpool upon possessing a representative who was so well acquainted with their interests. As to the hon. Member who had just sat down, he had made a speech de omnibus rebus-but he was all for cannon balls. He had spoken in the true Tory spirit, which always meant cannon balls. He would ask those hon. Gentlemen if they would propose to reduce any of the duties which formed a restriction to commerce? Would the noble Lord (Sandon) propose to reduce the duty on sugar? or on corn? or on timber? Not one of those duties would he propose to abate or ameliorate in order to encourage commerce. Not one Gentleman on the other side of the House, had ever proposed a single reduction of duty with a view to the increase of commerce, nor had they ever proposed any reduction with a view to lessen the burdens of the people. With respect to the course we ought to pursue, in order to placing the commerce of the country on a proper footing, he would quote the words of the late Member for Bath (Mr. Roebuck), who had placed the subject in the most concise, and, at the same time, most forcible point of view that he remembered. " Why," said the hon. Gentleman, "should we practise folly because other nations lack wisdom?" If this country were to resort to blockade in every instance similar to that of Mexico, it would soon have its hands full. And

even in the case of Mexico, had the Government pursued such a course, they would very soon have the right hon. Member for Pembroke (Sir J. Graham) coming down to the House with a long motion demanding to kuow why the Government had plunged the country into a war. He perceived, by a paper he held in his hands, that additional customs duties were to be levied on certain articles. Would the noble Lord oppose those duties, or would he propose a reduction in any of those existing? [Lord Sandon No:] No; because the noble Lord had peculiar interests to contend for, the colonial interests; there was to be 100 per cent. paid upon coffee-would the noble Lord take off that, or the duty on corn, or any other duty whatever; no. No hon. Member on the noble Lord's side of the House even proposed taking off a duty, no matter how beneficial to commerce might be the reduction. With respect to the commerce of the Black Sea, the treaty of Unkiar Skelessi, and the coast of Circassia, which had been spoken of by the hon. Member for Oxford (Mr. Maclean), it seemed to have escaped the hon. Member that Lord Aberdeen had more to do with these than the noble Lord-and that the name of the former was much more conspicuous in the correspondence.

Lord Sandon said, that if the revenue was in a flourishing condition, he would support a proposition for the reduction of duties; but as there was at present a positive and acknowledged deficiency, he could not be the person to propose a reduction.

Mr. E. Tennent said, it was no doubt true, that the blockade of Mexico had been raised; but had France, he would ask, abated one jot of her iniquitous demands on that country? Had France remitted one shilling of the 800,000 dollars she claimed? France had refused, and Mexico, in order to replenish her exhausted treasury, had imposed a duty of 25 per cent. on British goods consumed within her territories. The effect of this measure, he knew, was, that extensive orders for British goods had been already countermanded. Why had not the noble Lord, he would ask, interfered to stop the blockade of Buenos Ayres? So long as the foreign affairs of the country were managed as at present, that blockade could not be expected to terminate ex

that within the scope of the motion of the noble Lord? Why, the question rather belonged to the Secretary at War. And why introduce Cracow into this discussion? Was it legitimate to lug a question that had been already fully discussed into a topic of another kind with which it had nothing whatever to do? With regard to Portugal and Spain, it was not by bringing forward isolated points of import and export, as the noble Lord opposite had done, that a question like the present was to be judged, but by looking to broad and general results. He held in his hand the customs returns, which in a short compass presented a splendid picture of the prosperity of the country. The right hon. Gentleman referred to the increase of our exports and imports in a series of years previous and subsequent to the passing of the Reform Bill, and said,-these were facts, and such facts could not be contradicted or mistaken.

Mr. D'Israeli could not allow a discussion of that kind to terminate without attempting to infuse into it a spirit somewhat more comprehensive than that which had characterized it, and he was anxious to place before the House some circumstances of an extraordinary nature that had occurred within the last ten years. When the noble Lord first assumed the portfolio of foreign affairs, he adopted a new sys

cept, as the Mexican blockade had been terminated, on the terms and at the moment when France pleased. What protection had the noble Lord granted our commerce in Brazil? It was now five years since the question of the injuries done to British subjects at Pora had been under the noble Lord's consideration, and he should like to know what progress had been made in settling it? A memorial on the subject was sent to the noble Lord in 1835, and it was not till the middle of 1836 that he had even condescended to acknowledge its receipt. The noble Lord might say, there were legal difficulties in the way of settling the question, but it had now been before the law officers of the Crown for three years. At Bahia also, British subjects had been robbed of their property. A memorial, detailing the grievances of our countrymen at that place, had been put into the noble Lord's hand in March last, and up to the moment at which he spoke no answer had been received to it, not even the mere answer of ordinary civility, or acknowledgment of its being received. The noble Lord boasted of his readiness to interfere for the protection of our merchants; but he could venture to say, from an extensive knowledge of the merchants of Liverpool and of London, that not one of them placed any confidence in the noble Lord. Mr. Sheil complained that the hon. Mem-tem of foreign alliances, and he told them ber had brought forward his accusations against the noble Lord, when by the forms of the House, the noble Lord was unable to reply to him. If the hon. Gentleman had brought forward his allegations at a time when the noble Lord could have risen, he would have made retaliatory statements; but it was a deviation from the ordinary course, after a Minister of the Crown had delivered his speech, to come down upon him with a charge which he was precluded from answering. It appeared to him that the hon. Gentleman ought to have avoided allusion to Spain. Supposing the hon. Gentleman's aspirations had been heard, and his wishes granted, supposing the cause of despotism had triumphed, and that liberty had fallen-supposing Don Carlos had ascended the throne of Spain -what had that to do with the question? The question before the House was of a commercial nature, and yet the hon. Gentleman asked if payment had been obtained for the arms sent out to Spain.

that the first guarantee of his intention would be a commercial treaty with France. Nine years had elapsed, and that treaty had not appeared. Whether they were any nearer to its accomplishment now than at first was a question he would leave the House to determine. It appeared to him that the noble Lord, in forming his new arrangement, occasioned two of the severest blows to fall upon the commerce of this country that it had ever experienced. With Poland and the Black Sea, this country lost a commerce with twenty-one millions of men, in order to cement the alliance with France. Those were amongst the results of the new system of the noble Lord. In anticipation of the promised commercial treaty with France, we had supported the policy of that country in Belgium, in Spain, and in Portugal. What were the fruits of this support of interests which were not English interests, except so far as France might be considered the friend of England? We had been re

in Mexico and at Buenos Ayres, by the interruption of our commerce at Rio de la Plata, by the exclusion of our trade from the eastern coast of Africa, from Portendic and Gambia. Having played us false in seven portions of the globe, the eastern question, which all along had been lowering in the distance, at length developed itself, and then it became evident that the intention of France was to betray us in Egypt. Reluctantly convinced that the vaunted friendship of France was hollow, the noble Lord turned round to Russia, whom he had previously threatened, and endeavoured to obtain the support of a power which had destroyed our trade with Poland, and excluded us from the Euxine. Finding, however, that Russia would only support him in a very limited degree, the noble Lord was fain at last to revert to the principles of his early life, and to strengthen himself by seeking the alliance of the Conservative power of Austria. Succeeding in this return to the Tory principles of commercial policy, the noble Lord came down in triumph to the House and claimed applause for the wisdom of his arrangements. He for one did not object to this part of the noble Lord's policy. He thought that the Austrian connection was valuable. He thought that if ever there were two countries calculated by nature, and by the relations of trade and commerce, to be great and influential as allies, it was Great Britain and Austria. It was, in fact, the old traditionary policy of the country-but what was to compensate the country for the noble Lord's eccentric and erratic course during the last nine years? Were we, by our recently renewed alliance with Austria, to regain the trade which we had lost in Poland and the Black Sea? Were we to recover the markets of which France had deprived us in seven portions of the globe? Supposing the noble Lord to have adopted this Austrian alliance in 1832, was it probable that we should have suffered the losses and indignities to which we had been subjected under a different course of policy? For his own part, he thought that British commerce had been more prejudiced during the foreign administration of the noble Lord than in any other period of the like extent in the history of the nation; and he feared that the seeds of events had been sown, which hereafter might mature with consequences that would shake the empire to its centre.

Mr. Ewart, without entering into de

[tails, without discussing the policy of a blockade in this quarter of the globe, or a restriction to our commerce in another, was prepared to express his approbation of the general line of policy pursued by the noble Lord. The real question to be considered was, whether the broad principles which had governed the noble Lord's conduct were consistent with the great leading interests of the country? He thought, that fairly weighed, whatever partial defects might be discovered, the general scope and tendency of the noble Lord's foreign policy had been wise and prudent, and generally advantageous to the nation. Thus judging of it, he had the satisfaction of being able to give it his own individual approbation. He was the more disposed to approve of it, becanse the commercial policy of the noble Lord had throughout been a policy of peace.

The question "that the Speaker do now leave the chair" was carried. House in committee, supply postponed. House resumed.

LOAN SOCIETIES BILL.] On the motion for bringing up the report on the Loan Societies Bill.

Mr. John Abel Smith said, that the parties interested in this bill had consented to abandon the principle of fines, and in consideration of this he was willing to raise the rate of interest on loans, from 12 to 15 per cent. He was sure that this would meet the views of the hon. Member for Lambeth, and he would therefore move amendments, to the effect that the interest be so raised, and that it would not be lawful for the societies to impose any fines at all.

Mr. Hawes: As the hon. Gentleman had consented to raise the rate of interest from 12 to 15 per cent., one great objection which he had to the bill was removed; but he did not altogether approve of the amendment, which went to abolish fines: for although the hon. Member had increased the rate of interest by 2 per cent., he was afraid it would not cover the loss occasioned by the abolition of fines.

Mr. J. A. Smith said that in regard to the rate of interest, he had taken great pains to calculate the expences of the different societies, and he was fully convinced that 15 per cent was amply sufficient to meet them. In regard to fines, he was also convinced from experience of

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their inefficiency and uselessness. Indeed, | titioners prayed that the bill should not they were actually injurious, by encour- pass. My Lords, I am of a very different aging a carelessness on the part of those opinion from the petitioners. I am coninterested. In the society to which he vinced that no measure could be devised belonged, he found that out of a sum of which could more tend to remedy the 15,000l. lent out in small sums, there evils, and to remove those very inconvewere only 127. of arrears. niences of which the petitioners themselves Report received. complain in this petition, and which they say truly attend the parochial system of the Church in this country. I think, my Lords, the ecclesiastical commissioners did their duty in recommending this bill. I think it highly creditable to the Church that those inconveniences should be removed by the Church itself. I think it highly creditable that the Church should even take the first step in removing those evils, without applying for the assistance of the public money.

HOUSE OF LORDS,

Thursday, July 23, 1840.

MINUTES.] Bills. Received the Royal Assent:-Canada
Government; Vaccination Extension; Police Rates As
Chancery; Protestant Episcopal Church (Scotland); Arms

sessments; Timber Ships; Borough Watch; Masters in

(Ireland). Read a first time :-Abolition of Mesne Pro

cess Amendment.—Read a second time :-Canal Police;

Newgate Gaol (Dublin); Friendly Societies.-Read a third time:-Settled Estates Drainage; East India Mu

tiny. Petitions presented. By Lord Redesdale, Lord Portman,

the Duke of Sutherland, and the Earl of Warwick, from Portsmouth, Birmingham, and Nottingham, against the Sale of Beer Bill.-By the Duke of Wellington, Lord Kenyon, the Bishops of Durham, London, Chichester, Rochester, and Salisbury, the Archbishop of Canterbury, and the Earl of Devon, from Oxford, Canterbury, Durham, Chichester, and other places, against the Ecclesiastical Duties and Revenues Bill-By the Marquess of Westminster, from a place in Cheshire, and by Lord Stanley (of Alderley), from Northwick, against the Weaver Churches Bill.-By the Earl of Chichester, from the Church Missionary Society, against the Encouragement of Idolatrous Practices in India.

ECCLESIASTICAL DUTIES AND RE

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Petition laid on the table. ships afterwards heard counsel at the bar against the bill.

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HOUSE OF COMMONS,

Thursday, July 23, 1840.

MINUTES.] Bills. Read a first time:-Dog Carts.-Read
a second time :-Municipal Districts (Ireland); Customs;
East India Shipping.-Read a third time :-Insolvent
Debtors (Ireland); Insane Prisoners.
Petitions presented. By Mr. Sanford, from Somerset,
against Church Extension.-By Sir R. Peel, from In-
cumbents of Parishes, and Owners of Tithes in the Dio-
cese of Rochester, that in any Alteration of the Law re-
specting the Rating of the Stock in Trade, their interests
might be attended to; and from the Clergy of the Prin-
cipality of Wales, that no person might be appointed to
a Welsh Bishopric not acquainted with the Welsh Lan-
guage. By Mr. Baines, from a place in the county of
Nottingham, to support Infant Schools; and from Lan-
caster, against any countenance to Idolatrous Worship in
India. By the Attorney-general, from the Owners of a
Coal-work in Somersetshire, and a Water-works in New-
castle, that their Property might be Exempted from
Taxes for the Relief of the Poor.-By Mr. Hume, from
Gallashiels, against the Trade in Opium, and War with
China.

VENUES BILL CHURCH EXTENSION.] The Duke of Wellington, after presenting a petition from the University of Oxford against the Ecclesiastical Duties and Revenues Bill, said, I entirely differ from the petitioners, who indeed show, by some of their own statements, the necessity which exists for such a measure; for they com. plain of the parochial deficiency of the Church of England at the present time. But it is in vain, my Lords, for any man in these times to expect that that defi- FARNHAM RECTORY.] On the Order ciency will be made up out of the public of the Day being moved for the third money whilst the Church has in itself re-reading of the Farnham Rectory Bill. sources that may be applied to the purpose. I say, my Lords, that all the resources which the Church possesses should be applied to supply that deficiency and to remove those inconveniences. The petitioners themselves admit that the evil exists; and it is most desirable, both for the public good and for the good of the Church itself, that those inconveniences should be reinedied and removed. I confess, therefore, that I heard with astonishment, that this petition was got up in the

Sir R. H. Inglis moved that the third reading should be postponed till Monday.

Captain Pechell wished that the hon. Baronet should assign some reason for the postponement.

Mr. Hume said, that as the motion was not immediately proceeded with, he would move that the bill should be read a third time that day three months.

Sir R. H. Inglis would appeal to hon., Members on both sides whether the course taken by the hon. Member for Kilkenny

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