therefore, would not go step by step, and allow each case to rest upon its own merits. He thought this no sound argument, and he called upon the noble Lord, if he saw nothing wrong in the motion, to agree to it; and that if at any future time any other proposition should be made that was wrong, then he was at perfect liberty to oppose it. started the British Museum and the National Gallery against the licensed victuallers. Now, supposing the House should have no objection with regard to the principle and tendency of the motion, he was not quite sure, in point of fact, whether, if a greater number of people visited the British Museum-after going through all the rooms-the licensed victuallers would not find some advantage in placing very near the doors of the Museum their establishments. And, as it was very much the custom of this country, when there was an exhibition, and the people made a holiday of it, as they called it, that after seeing the sight, they went to some place of entertainment, where re-sition was adopted, those who now went freshments might be had, he was not quite sure that instead of starting these exhibitions against the licensed victuallers and the gin shops, the proprietors of those places would not find that they were getting a good deal more custom on a Sunday than they had before. have some a Mr. Aglionby did not understand the argument of the noble Lord, founded upon what he supposed to be the tendency of the proposition before the House. In his opinion the tendency of it, if adopted, would be to give the people better habits and better tastes. But the noble Lord was apprehensive that it would indirect and remote tendency to introduce other amusements on the Sabbath; and thus ultimately assimilate the Sabbath to the other days of the week. No doubt to the extent of opening the British Museum and National Gallery, this would have such tendency; but it would be in the smallest possible point. But the noble Lord went further, and said "I have no objection to the motion in itself, but I object to it because it may hereafter be urged in favour of some other proposition - for admitting of some further amusement on the Sabbath." And why should it not? Why should not each case rest upon its own merits? He would not relax any regulation where the relaxation of it would be improper, but he could not go the length which the noble Lord had done, and say, "I admit that the opening of the British Museum on the Sunday is not wrong in itself, but I oppose such an arrangement, because it may, by possibility, have a very remote tendency to the adoption of other arrangements that may be in Mr. Muntz could see no difference between persons going to the British Museum and to the Zoological-gardens of a Sunday. In the one case they saw the images of animals, and in the other they saw the animals themselves. The question seemed to him to be this; whether, if this propo to places of public worship would be drawn List of the AYES. Aglionby, H. A. TELLERS. Hamilton, Mr. List of the NOES. Baring, rt. hon. F. T. Broadwood, H. Brodie, W. B. Lincoln, Earl of Packe, C. W. Perceval, Colonel Pigot, D. R. Smith, R. V. TELLERS. Inglis, Sir R. H. Goulburn, Mr. HILL COOLIES.] Mr. Mackinnon said, that the motion of which he had given notice, had for its object the appointment of a select committee to investigate the propriety of allowing immigration of free labourers from the East Indies, not only into the Mauritius and British Guiana, but into every part of the British dominions. This was a measure of great importance, and he brought it forward without any party feeling whatever, or with any desire to give annoyance to her Majesty's Government. His wish was, that it should undergo a calm and clear consideration, in order to come to a satisfactory result. The Colonial Office, however good their intentions, did not possess sufficient information to enable them or the country to form a judicious and just opinion upon the subject. He would therefore move for the appointment" of a Select Committee, to investigate if it be in accordance with humanity, justice and good policy, to sanction, by Legislative enactments, the immigration of labourers from the East into the colonies and possessions of Great Britain." Mr. Vernon Smith regretted that the motion had been brought forward at so late a period of the Session; but as the hon. Member had not stated the scope of his inquiries, or to what colonies he would confine the inquiries of the committee, he thought that this motion could not be agreed to by the House. Whether he would consent to the appointment of a committee next session he would reserve to that session to determine. Now, he must oppose the hon. Member's motion, promising that the Colonial-office would in the meantime duly and fairly attend to the interests of the colonists, as well as the welfare of the persons who might emigrate. Viscount Sandon was aware of the inutility of appointing a committee at this late period, but he was pleased to hear that the attention of the Government was so strenuously directed to this question. He hoped that a plan might be fixed upon which would benefit all parties. Mr. C. Buller thought that the newborn zeal of Gentlemen on the other side of the House for the supply of free labour to the West Indies was but an ill recompense for their late vote against the Government plan. If they were so deeply convinced of the necessity for a provision, they ought, at least, to have stated the grounds why they opposed the introduction of the Hill Coolies into the Mauritius. No more important subject could occupy the attention of the House, and it was necessary both for the interests of the colonies and of humanity that something should be done without delay, and he hoped that they would come prepared next session to legislate upon the subject, the public being first satisfied of its propriety by the inquiries of the Govern ment. Mr. Warburton by no means regretted the vote that had been lately come to by the House, because the Government has not, and never had, a control over the authorities of the Mauritius; and if there was to be an emigration that would succeed, it must be under the superintendence of Government, and it must be directed to those countries over which the Government had some control. But, before the House was called upon to give its consent to any measure, all the details ought to MINUTES.] Bills. Read a first time:-Church Temporalities (Ireland). Petitions presented. By Mr. Sergeant Jackson, from Bandon, complaining of the Grand Juries Act as it relates to the Remuneration of Medical Witnesses.-By Mr. Hawes, from Lambeth, and other places, against the Copyright Bill.-By Mr. Villiers, from Carshalton, Southwark, and other places, for a Repeal of the Corn-laws. GOVERNMENT OF CANADA.] On the Order of the Day being read for taking into consideration the Lords' amendments to the Canada Government Bill, Lord John Russell, in moving that the amendments be agreed to, said, that with regard to one of those amendments some misapprehension seemed to exist in some quarters. It seemed to be supposed that one of those amendments had the effect of postponing the operation of the bill for fifteen months. Now the effect of that amendment was, to give the Governorgeneral a power to postpone its commencement for that period if he pleased, instead of the more limited period of six months, within which time the bill, as it went up to the Lords, was directed to be brought into operation. The amendment, therefore, did not at all prevent the bill coming into operation within six months, or indeed as soon as the Government at home and the Governor-general might think proper. Amendments agreed to. AFFIRMATION.] Mr. Hawes moved the second reading of the Affirmation Bill. Mr. Goulburn understood from the hon. Gentleman the bill was not to come on that evening. Some hon. Friends of his, who intended to oppose the bill, were ab sent. Mr. Hawes had made no promise not to bring on the bill that evening. He should not have brought on the bill in the absence of the right hon. Gentleman; but certainly he did not, in the communication he made to the right hon. Gentleman, contemplate the absence of any other Member of that House. Mr. Freshfield moved, that the bill be read a second time that day week. The House divided on the original question: Ayes 49; Noes 43-Majority 6. List of the AYES. Barry, G. S. Hawes, B. List of the NOES. he had laboured most zealously in that offence should be certain and well defined; cause. He had assisted in carrying through but what did he find here? In fourteen two bills, which had the effect of diminish- instances of offences in which death might ing the cases in which death could be now be inflicted, his hon. Friend, in aboinflicted from 200 to about fourteen. lishing that punishment, had not provided Those bills were passed in 1837, but they another and an appropriate punishment for did not come into full operation until each offence, but he had lumped them 1839. It was not, therefore, above a together, and said that they should be year that the country had had the means punished by transportation for life, or for of trying the experiment. They ought to any term not less than seven years, or by proceed with caution while they pro- imprisonment in England for five years, ceeded with zeal towards the object they with or without hard labour. What sort had in view. Here was a bill having for of legislation was this, allowing, as it did, its object the abolition of capital punish- a discretion to be left with the judges, ment in all cases except treason and mur- which ought not to be left to any trider-in England, and only in England-bunal, however enlightened. If his hon. allowing the law in Ireland and Scotland and learned Friend had taken the time to remain as it now existed. When his which was necessary for so very imhon. Friend near him (Mr. Fox Maule) portant and arduous an undertaking, he started that objection, which seemed to be would have fixed a specific punishment considered unanswerable, the hon. and for each offence which was now punishlearned Gentleman himself yielded to it, able with death, and which he considered and felt that unless he could bring in bills ought hereafter to be punished in a more for Scotland and Ireland to pass stage by mitigated manner. The cautious mode of stage with the bill for England, it would proceeding was this, that they should asnot be right to pass the bill for England certain by experiment before they actually in the present Session. They had now enacted a statute, and see how the system reached the 15th of July, and were about worked which they wished permanently to to go into committee on the English bill; establish. It was in that way that his did his hon. and learned Friend hope to noble Friend the Secretary of State for succeed in introducing and carrying the Colonies proceeded, before he introthrough this Session bills for Ireland and duced those bills which took away the Scotland? If he took in hand a bill for punishment of death in a vast variety of Scotland, he would find it a most arduous cases, and he was now proceeding in the task. He would not have to deal merely with same way. Since those bills had passed, the statute book, but he would learn that, the punishment of death had only been it was considered, that by the common law inflicted in cases of murder, with one single of Scotland, capital punishment might be exception; and that was in the case of an inflicted in certain instances, and that attempt to murder, under very aggravated those instances were not very well defined. circumstances. He was not prepared to But, independently of this argument say whether they ought to abolish the against proceeding with the measure, he punishment of death in every case, howhad objections to the provisions of the ever atrocious the crime, merely because bill itself. Notwithstanding the zeal and it so happened that the victim survived a industry of his hon. and learned Friend, year and a day, although he might have he had entirely omitted one case in which been left for dead, and although the case capital punishment might be inflicted in was attended with circumstances of the England. As the law now stood, the greatest enormity. Since those bills had forging and counterfeiting stamps in cer- passed, the punishment of death had been tain cases was a capital felony, without bene- inflicted in one case for an attempt at fit of clergy. This, too, his hon. and learned murder, and, he believed, with the approFriend had entirely omitted. And why? bation of the great bulk of the community. Because he had not time to give that con- Why, he would ask, should this subject be sideration to the subject which its solemn taken out of the hands of his noble Friend? importance demanded. Other parts of the Had his noble Friend shown that he had bill were liable to some most serious ob- waxed cold in the cause? No; he was jections. What all were agreed ought to as zealous as ever to promote the great be established in the criminal law of this end which all were anxious to attain ; country was and learned Friend to suspend all further | tended bringing forward any similar bill proceedings till the next Session of Par- during the present session. It was only liament. He would ask him, had full upon getting a reply in the negative to inquiry been made as to the opinions of that question, that he had attempted to the judges upon this question? Had they originate such a proposition as that then been consulted? They were now on the before the House. He had put the quescircuit, and it was utterly impossible that tion at a time which would, if they wished, their opinions could be taken upon the have enabled the Government to have details of the bill. Was it not desirable passed those bills long before that day. that their opinions should at least be But he had been told that the Governknown with respect to a certain offence ment had no such intention. And it was which he could only glance at? His hon. only when he found that the hon. Memand learned Friend would know what he ber for Wigan, whose exertions in this meant. In a bill which had passed through cause deserved the greatest commendathe House of Commons, a clause was in- tion, and that the right hon. Member for troduced to take away the punishment of the Tower Hamlets, both of whom he had death for those offences, but in the House endeavoured to induce to take this matter of Lords that clause was struck out upon up, and to whom he had offered his corthe suggestion, he believed, of a noble dial assistance, had declined doing so for and learned judge. Was his hon. and the present, that he had felt himself learned Friend aware that that objection obliged by a strong sense of duty to orihad since been removed in that quarter, ginate and bring on this matter. Under and did he think it possible that such a these circumstances he had given notice bill as this could pass without discussion after last Easter of his intention of bringin the other House? If not, then was it ing in a bill on this subject. He underpossible that any discussion could, at this stood, too, that her Majesty's Government late period, with advantage take place? had no objection to the principles of the Under all these circumstances, he thought bill. The first reading had passed without his hon. and learned Friend would best discussion-so had passed the second consult the object he had in view, which reading. But now, when they came to was, not to gratify any personal vanity, the committee, this objection for the first or to obtain any temporary popularity, time was made, and an impediment but to advance the great cause of ame thrown in his way. But he felt it to be liorating the criminal code of this coun- his duty to press that bill forward; and try, by the abolition of the punishment he was determined to move that the of death in as many cases as possible, Speaker should leave the chair, that they by postponing this measure to another might go into committee upon the bill in question. His hon. and learned Friend Mr. Kelly must express the very great had complained that he had failed in concern which he felt, that in pursuing bringing in a bill extending this measure the course which he intended to pursue to Ireland. On a former occasion he upon that occasion, he should give the stated that his only reason for not doing slightest displeasure to his right hon. and so was, that he had not an opportunity of learned Friend the Attorney-general. ascertaining the opinions entertained by But at the same time he should not act as hon. Members connected with that counhis strong sense of duty prompted him, if try. As soon as he learned that it was he acceded upon that occasion to the pro- the desire of a great majority of the Irish position of his hon. and learned Friend. Members that a similar bill should be His hon. and learned Friend implied that brought in for Ireland, he, without delay, he had taken the present matter out of proposed a bill for that purpose, which the hands of the Government and the was now on the table of the House, and noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies. which he intended should be read a first Now upon that point he should take the time to-morrow. He had also caused a liberty of reminding the hon Gentlemen bill to be prepared to extend the measure opposite, that before he had ventured to to Scotland, and it was now ready to be undertake a measure of that kind, he had laid upon the table; but in consequence distinctly asked whether the noble Lord of a suggestion which had been made to the Secretary for the Colonies, or any him, he should submit it to the Lord Admember of the present Government, in-vocate in the course of to-morrow; and if year. |