HANSARD'S PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES, DURING THE THIRD SESSION OF THE THIRTEENTH QUEEN VICTORIA. FIFTH AND LAST VOLUME OF THE SESSION. MINUTES.] Bills. Read a first time:-Timber Duties; Colonial Passengers; Admiralty. tors in London, and various other places, for the Remo- persevere in his intention at that late period The Marquess of Westmeath, upon look- ing to the order book, saw no other open day but that which he had selected until Friday week. In the present state of the Session he hoped the noble Marquess would not ask him to put off his motion till the arrival of Mr. Nicholls. The question was one of pressing importance, and if he con- sented so to postpone his motion it would to be investigated. He trusted, therefore, that the noble Marquess would allow him to proceed with his motion on Thursday. He had received many communications on to a notice of motion, given by a noble Mar- during the ensuing recess. That law had quess (Westmeath) for a select committee, been basely and wickedly perverted to to inquire into matters relating to the Poor-party purposes in Ireland, and the proceed- law Act in Ireland, which stood for ings which had taken place under it ought Thursday next, that it would be impossible for Mr. Nicholls and other Gentlemen con- nected with the introduction of that mea- sure into Ireland, whose conduct might perhaps be impugned, to appear at so short a notice. He would put it to the noble Marquess himself, whether he would feel justified in moving for a select committee, on so short a notice, of which he was not The Marquess of Normanby said, the more convenient course would be for the noble Marquess to take an open day for It HANSARD'S PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES, DURING THE THIRD SESSION OF THE THIRTEENTH PARLIAMENT OF THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT AT TO MEET QUEEN VICTORIA. FIFTH AND LAST VOLUME OF THE SESSION. in his intention at that late period persevere of the Session. The Marquess of Westmealh, upon look- ing to the order book, saw no other open Colonial Passengers ; Admiralty. sented so to postpone his motion it would be thrown over for the present Session. He quess of Normanby said, with reference be allowed to remain in its present state ought to be recollected, when they were, He conceived it to be his duty to bring the called on to consider this subject, that Mr. subject fully before the House. The system Nicholls had a very difficult and delicate now acted on could not, and ought not, to task to perform, and that his efforts were be allowed to go on even for three months likely to be checked and discouraged by longer. such a proceeding as the noble Marquess contemplated. All, however, that he re-pointment of a committee to consider of this quired, on the part of Mr. Nicholls was, that fair time should be given for the production of full information on all matters connected with his proceedings. Lord Ellenborough was not aware, whe. ther the noble Marquess near him meant to impugn the conduct of Mr. Nicholls as wrong, or whether his object was to shew that the Poor-law itself was bad? If the latter, there was nothing to prevent him from bringing in a bill to amend the law; and, on the second reading, he might go into the whole subject. There was a very great difference between bringing charges against individuals, and introducing a bill to amend or to repeal another measure. The Marquess of Westmeath, if he was sure of carrying a bill through that House, and more particularly through the House of Commons, for altering the Irish Poorlaw, would most certainly propose it at once. But he did not flatter himself with any such assurance. His idea at present, therefore, was, that a committee should be appointed to consider the question, and, if the noble Marquess wished it, he would postpone his motion till Friday week. The Earl of Wicklow said, they were now past the middle of June, and he would ask his noble Friend did he think it at all likely that a committee appointed at so late a period could make such a report, as that any bill could possibly result from their labours this Session? This, too, was the most critical moment at which the law could be attacked, when it had been so recently brought into operation. The greatest possible inconvenience would result from pursuing such a course, and he thought the most judicious mode would be for his noble Friend not to persevere in his motion for a committee. Lord Brougham was opposed to the ap law. It should be recollected, that the law was now only early in the course of operation, and the formation of a committee must necessarily have the effect of preventing it from having any fair play whatever. The effect of appointing a committee would be neither more nor less than putting the bill on its trial before it had been a sufficient time in operation to judge of it fairly. Lord Ellenborough was sorry that parties, actuated by religious feelings or prejudices, should interfere in those elections. how could they expect to ameliorate the But situation of Ireland, in that respect, or in any other matter connected with the law, by going into committee at this period of the Session? They must hear both parties. And when the noble Marquess talked of the influence of priests, his opponents would speak of influence on the other side. Thus, the statements made before the committee, upon which it would be impossible to frame any measure this Session, would, during six months of the recess, be the subject of angry discussion in Ireland. Would that, he begged leave to ask, be conducive to the tranquillity of Ireland, or to the successful working of the bill? His conviction was, whatever was the ground on which the noble Marquess wished to call for a committee, that such only lead to aggravation of public feeling a proceeding would in Ireland-the very thing that was most to be avoided. The Marquess of Westmeath was prepared to shew that the power of rating under the Poor Law, as connected with the Reform Bill, was greatly abused. He could prove that many evils arose out of the system. These points might be considered, should be done, or whether nothing should and the committee might declare what be done. He should not be doing justice to numerous parties who had applied to him on the subject if he did not bring it forward this Session. The Marquess of Westmeath said, the bill was working as ill as it possibly could, and, if it were allowed to go on in the same way during another recess, the worst consequences might be apprehended. Why might not an inquiry take place, so that the law might be amended on particular points?spect to rating, there was a power of appeal Lord Ellenborough said, that, with reAs the law now stood, in many instances under the act. the Roman Catholic priests ran away with the elections of guardians. Why should not this defect in the measure be corrected? plained had not appealed, they had no right If those who now comto come before Parliament. If they had appealed, and could shew that the law was defective, then certainly they might apply, her Majesty's Government had taken. He, to the Legislature. He had read the clause therefore, begged leave to withdraw the with attention, great pains had been taken notice of the motion which he had given with it, and if the parties could not shew for Thursday next, but would bring it forthat it was ineffectual for their protection, ward again before the end of the Session, they had no right to come to that House. unless the satisfactory statement of Subject dropped. noble Viscount were carried into effect. ANGLO-SPANISH Legion.] The Marquess ADMINISTRATION or JUSTICE IN INEof Londonderry wished to asked the noble LAND.] The Marquess of Westmeath had Viscount a question, having reference to a a short statement to make to their Lordmotion of his relative to the unfortunate ships, pursuant to notice, connected with officers of the Anglo-Spanish Legion, which the administration of justice in Ireland. stood on the order book for Thursday next. This object was to obtain authentic inHe wished to received some information formation, in the shape of documents, confrom the noble Viscount as to the progress nected with a transaction of which he of the negotiation for settling the claims of understood the following to be the fact :those officers. He had now, since April A Roman Catholic priest, in the county of last, earnestly urged the claims of those Cavan, the Rev. Philip O'Reilly, by name, unfortunate persons who, for three years, of the parish of Ballymacuc, had chosen to had been endeavouring to procure what was indulge (what was not uncommon in Irejustly due to them. Those individuals still land) in very insulting language from the hoped, from had passed in that House, that altar, against any person who might prejustice would at length be rendered to sume to take some land. The words which them. He strongly felt the propriety of the priest used were, that, their claims; and he hoped that the Session would not be allowed to pass, with “ Ile, who would take this land, ought to out some decisive statement from the noble have his ears cut off, like a pig's, or an ass's." Viscount that their demands would be liquidated. If the noble Viscount would There were present at the delivery of give an assurance of that nature, he should this sermon, two Roman Catholic policemost readily withdraw his motion which men, who, in the execution of their duty, stood for Thursday. He had heard a re- laid an information before some magisport, that a promise had been given for a trates in the neighbourhood. Instead of speedy payment of 50,0001., and a farther acting upon it and issuing a warrant, advance of 50,0001. by instalments. If these magistrates forwarded the informathe noble Viscount had any communication, as he understood, to the Government tion, or information of that kind to justify to learn wbat they should do. The inforhim in withdrawing his motion, he should mation was returned to the court of magisbe glad to hear it. He saw that the claims trates, recommending that the business of the Portuguese officers had been favour- should be hushed up. A proposal was ably considered and dealt with, and it was made to the priest to pay 501., he supposed a great reproach to the Government that to be divided amongst the parties. A mathe equally just claims of the unfortunate gistrate, whose name he would not now mcn, who had formed the Anglo-Spanish mention, proposed that the affair should be legion, had been not long since settled. submitted to arbitration, and the sworn He called on the noble Viscount to state information was cushioned. It was necesdistinctly in what position the negotiation sary for either the magistrates, or the now stood. Government, or both, to account for this Viscount Melbourne was happy to be matter. The greatest jealousy and alarm able to reply that the negotiation was very prevailed in Ireland in consequence of the near its termination. There had been no favour which was shown to Roman Cathopayment as yet in money, but bills had lic priests. A most remarkable interchange been received in London. He could also of good offices was constantly taking place add, that he was satisfied with the nego- between them and the Government, who tiation, so far as it had gone. were in a great measure indebted to them The Marquess of Londonderry said, that for place and power, and the priests availed that declaration of the noble Viscount was themselves of this to confirm their influence. satisfactory. The justice of the claims had The result of all this, as evidenced in the been acknowledged by the course which continual application for initigation of sen. |