question, except by strict inquiry on the
part of the Poor-law commissioners,
the result of which should
be put
upon record, and produced at any time,
it might be considered advisable, in order
to show what had passed. He hoped the
noble Marquess would consent to with-
draw his motion, in order that their Lord-
ships might know next Session-should it
be deemed necessary to revive this discus-
sion-what the grounds were upon which
they stood, whether an inquiry was ne-
cessary, and whether, upon inquiry, it
should be advisable to amend the present
law, or enact a new one.

which had taken place in the two Parlia- firmly believed, that the measure never mentary boroughs of the county Tippe- would have passed that House if certain amendments had not been introduced to benefit of the recess in order to set the localize as much as was possible the ex-matter right, and to have the law properly penditure, and to throw it upon the pro- administered throughout Ireland. With prietors for the support of the paupers on regard to the valuations that had taken their estates and town lands, so as to give place, there was no doubt that political them an additional interest in the welfare considerations had been mixed up with of the people, and to induce them to take them, because they went to establish a care of those unfortunate persons, not certain degree of political power. If the from motives of humanity alone, but also valuations were too low, however, the from motives of economy. It would have abuse of the law was as great as if it were been impossible, considering the state of too high. As far as the execution of the Ireland, to execute this measure, if strong Poor-law was concerned, the higher the powers had not been established in the valuation the better; but that did not suit Poor-law commissioners, and accordingly some parties. It was, of course, objected very strong powers indeed had been con- to, and then came disputes upon the subfided to them as to the election, the ap-ject. There was no way of deciding this pointment, and the duties, of the guardians. The commissioners had the power to dismiss the guardians and appoint others in their place, as well as to do every other thing which it was necessary to do in order to enable them to carry the measure into effect as the law intended. In order that Parliament, and the public, and the Government, might know what was passing, the commissioners were required to keep a record of all their correspondence, and it was in the power of their Lordships, of the public, and of the proprietors of Ireland, to make complaints to the commissioners and to place on record all that passed, so as to enable that House or the Government to see whether further inquiry was necessary. That, however, had not been done. The intentions of Parliament had not been carried into effect. The grossest abuse had certainly taken place at some of the elections of guardians; but then the poorlaw commissioners had not done their duty in bringing the circumstances connected with those elections under their cognizance, and properly recording them. In point of fact, therefore, their Lordships could not take cognizance of them. Besides, it was absolutely impossible, as stated by the noble Marquess (the Marquess of Normanby), to enter, at this late period of the Session, into such an inquiry, as the noble Marquess behind him demanded, with the hope of adopting any ulterior measures this Session, or indeed, without injuring the operation of the Poor law in Ireland. Their Lordships had not materials, as far as he could see, to be brought under their consideration, and could, therefore, come to no decision during the present Session. He recom

The Earl of Glengall thought, that the noble Marquess had passed rather lightly over several of the charges which had been brought forward in support of this motion, and that one in particular which related to the South Dublin Union. It appeared, that in that union 314 houses had been valued at a certain rate by the valuators in which rate an alteration had been made for reasons best known to those who made it. The value of those 314 houses had been raised from various sums to 101., and as he understood in this manner. A gentleman named Seaton, who attended at the registry session for the Radical interest, was one of a party appointed by the Poor-law guardians to go round and inspect the valuation, and having represented that those houses had been valued too low, induced the Poor-law guardians to raise them to 10., for the purpose, evidently, of conferring upon them the Parliamentary franchise. In St. Catherine's parish, the value of twenty-seven houses was raised in the same way. He had also to complain of the valuation

Subject dropped.

ECCLESIASTICAL DUTIES AND REVE-
NUES.] House in Committee on the Ec-
clesiastical Duties and Revenues Bill.
On Clause 7,

mended the noble Marquess not to press | it to the House. It was true, that if the his motion at present. Let them have the recommendation of that commission were rary, being two Poor-law unions, namely, carried into effect, it would be most Clonmel and Cashel. The reason of all hostile to our commerce; but it had not this might, he thought, be traced to the yet been adopted, and he hoped the Spareturning officers, who were not men of nish Government would not proceed to sufficient respectability, and who were act on it. If, however, they did so, it vested with too much power. He would would then be for her Majesty's Governsuggest, that an alteration should be made ment to consider what steps should be in that part of the bill. He thought, that taken on the subject. the most proper persons who could be elected returning officers were the high constables of the districts. They were gentlemen of the highest respectability; they were elected by the grand juries, and they were required to give security to the amount of 2,000l. or 3,000l. for the collection of the county cess. The bill allowed any individual to be a returning officer; and the consequence of which was, that generally speaking, they were persons who kept dram shops. If fair and proper elections of Poor-law guardians could be had (and there was no doubt they could, if the returning officers were respectable), then he thought, the whole operation of the law would go on well, and give satisfaction both to the people at large, and the gentry of the country. Motion withdrawn.

HOUSE OF COMMONS,

Friday, July 3, 1840.

MINUTES.] Bills. Read a second time:-Canal Police;
Episcopal Church (Scotland).-Read a third time :-Isle

of Man; Entailed Estates (Scotland).
Petitions presented. By Mr. Goulburn, from the Dean and

Chapter of Ely, to be exempted from the provisions of

the Ecclesiastical Duties and Revenues Bill in the same

way as Christchurch, Oxford.-By Sir T. Acland, from

the Archdeacon and Clergy of Barnstaple, and Winchester, against the Bill.

SPANISH TARIFF.] Mr. Wallace wished to ask the right hon. Gentleman, the President of the Board of Trade, whether any account of the new Tariff which had been reported to have been issued by the Spanish Government, and which was said to be of a nature most injurious to our manufacturing interests, had reached the Government?

Mr. Labouchere said, there had been received at the Board of Trade, within the last very few days, a report from a commission that had been appointed by the Spanish Government for investigating the character of the existing tariff, but from its having been so recently received, he

Lord J. Russell moved to add the word "Ely," so as to include that amongst the cathedrals of which two canonries were to be suppressed.

Mr. Goulburn objected to the amendment. He could perceive no great difference between the circumstances of Christ Church and those of the cathedral of Ely, and he, therefore, thought, that, as the noble Lord proposed by the bill to give eight prebendal stalls to Christ Church, he had a right to claim that the same number should be given to Ely. If this bill passed it would deprive the canons of Ely of the means they now had for instructing youth, because they would be unable to absent themselves for a sufficient length of time to attend to their duties in the University. The question might naturally be asked, what was the connection between the University of Cambridge and the cathedral of Ely? His answer was, that that connexion was very close, and had existed very long-a bishop of Ely having founded two of the colleges, Jesus and Peters, and made them partakers to a large extent in his patronage by conferring prebends on the masters of the university, over which he presided. From the earliest times there had been only three deans of Ely, who were not masters in the University of Cambridge. The cathedral of Ely had rendered great assistance to the university by providing in this way for professors, and therefore he must entreat the noble Lord to take the case of this cathedral into his consideration, and to place it on the same footing as Christ Church. There was one other point to which he must advert, and that was the inadequate emoluments of the Norrisian professor of divinity. Now,

dedicated, and converted into mere places | great satisfaction he felt on hearing the of exhibition of sculpture and works of observations made by his right hon. art. On the other hand, he had no desire Friend. It was essentially necessary, not to see those noble buildings crowded with only that the services should be repeated curtained and carpetted pews. Still he in the cathedrals, but that there should would suggest that they might be rendered be double services in all the parishes of conducive in the highest degree to the pur- the kingdom where the population exposes of moral and religious instruction ceeded a certain amount. When the Pluamong the people. Why should there ralities Bill went up from this House last not be additional services performed, for Session, it contained a clause to that instance, in Westminster Abbey? Why effect; but in the House of Lords the should not the practice that prevailed al- clause was altered, and made the double most throughout the continent be adopted service depend upon the will of the bishop here, and a moveable and moveable seats of the diocese. Whether that power had be placed in the aisles of the cathedrals been satisfactorily exercised by the bishops where prayers could be read and sermons he knew not, but he thought it was impreached, as well as in the choir? His portant to urge the necessity of double belief was, that if there were three services service being performed in all populous in Westminster Abbey on the Sunday, parishes. two in the morning and one in the evening, they would be most fully attended. Of course for this additional service some increase of endowment should be reserved. It was impossible to expect the clergy would perform such additional duties, without some additional compensation. He wished to press this upon the attention of the noble Lord.

Lord John Russell agreed in very many of the observations made by the right hon. Gentleman, the Member for Montgomeryshire; but when the right hon. Gentleman proposed that he should make some provision in this bill for the purposes the right hon. Gentleman had suggested, certainly a doubt occurred to him whether he could state any thing to the House that would be satisfactory, or whether he could enter into any engagement upon the subject. It appeared to him to be a matter more dependent upon the ecclesiastical

first instance, and the bishop of the diocese in the second-than upon any provision that could be made by Parliament for the purpose. His own belief was, that were divine service to be performed in the aisles, and especially were sermons to be from time to time preached with power and eloquence to the people there, it might be the means of doing very great good. That was his opinion; but he could only state it as his opinion. There might be objections made to the proposal. He was not aware himself of any; still he certainly felt that he was not in a situation to give any thing like a pledge upon the subject.

Sir R. Inglis hoped the observations of his right hon. Friend would meet with the noble Lord's attention. To those who were of opinion that an increased Church accommodation was required, the sugges-authorities-the dean and chapter in the tion of his right hon. Friend would appear to be one very obvious, and a very just mode of affording that increase. It was well known that in former times prayers were said and sermons preached in the aisles of the cathedrals. He, however, differed from his right hon. Friend in one particular. There might be moveable pews in the cathedrals in the north of France, but he could speak from his own knowledge, that in the south of France the pews in the cathedrals were as fixed and immoveable as they were in England. Mr. Briscoe was not aware how far her Majesty's Government possessed the means of carrying into effect the suggestion offered by the right hon. Gentleman; but he felt very strongly that Westminster Abbey might be most usefully and beneficially applied to affording religious instruction to the people. At present free access to the Abbey was not afforded to the public; many persons were constantly refused admittance during the hours of divine service.

Mr. Williams Wynn said, that at the time he had the honour of serving as one of the Members of the first Ecclesiastical Commission, he, at a meeting of the commissioners, threw out the same suggestion, and it appeared to him to have been received with approbation; but it had not since been acted upon. He was aware that it must be a subject of arrangement,