that a strong desire existed that this inquiry should be pursued in Scotland, and, thus solicited, he had agreed that it should be so extended. On one point he could readily dispel the apprehensions of his noble Friend. It was not intended that the inquiry should be at all connected with the Poor-law system in Scotland. There would be no difficulty in laying on the Table a copy of the instructions. POOR-LAW (IRELAND).] The Marquess of Westmeath rose for the purpose of moving for a select committee to inquire into certain elections of Poor-law guardians and other matters relating to the Poor-law Act in Ireland. He admitted that the recent Poor-law Act was a matter of vast importance to Ireland. He had opposed the introduction of it both in that House and elsewhere, and in so doing had exposed himself to the reproach of seeking his own interest as a landed proprietor. Such a view had never entered his mind. He held documents at that moment in his hand, which proved beyond all possibility of doubt that he had been but too true a prophet of the results of this measure. He believed that it had been brought in with the best intentions by her Majesty's Ministers, but unfortunately it had been converted by a certain party in Ireland into a mere political scheme. The evils of it had been immediate and disastrous. One of its leading objects had been to secure a proper provision of guardians. This was to be accomplished by votes taken in manuscript, which were to be returned to certain officers named in the bill, who were to declare on whom the majority of suffrages had fallen. In most parts of Ireland and he held in his hand the returns from nineteen counties-these elections had been accompanied by the most violent interference on the part of the Roman Catholic priests. The main characteristic which marked all the elections, and particularly in the western parts of Ireland, was the combined efforts of the Roman Catholic priests to get their own partisans chosen into these offices, and thereby to put down the landed interest. Mobs had gone about to intimidate electors; armed parties had been employed in the night to take away from others their polling papers; individuals had gone about in the day-time either to get the In get them filled up according to their own wishes. In some places there had been fraudulent nominations of guardians, in others attempts at forgeries had been detected. In several cases individuals had been punished for these offences, but in no instance had they been brought home to the leaders in these transactions, owing to the influence of the Roman Catholic priests. In the county of Cork the Government had instituted a long and protracted investigation into these transactions, but there a Roman Catholic priest had acted a most prominent part in endeavouring to screen the policeman who had been guilty of the forgeries. On one occasion a priest, in defending a forgery, had let out his knowledge of it by exclaiming, "I wonder how they found it out." In the city of Dublin there had been sixty-eight well-established cases of forgery, and it had therefore become necessary to proceed to a new election. Longford extreme violence had been displayed in open court, and in consequence the commissioner, Mr. Hancock, proposed to the Roman Catholic priests that each party should nominate two parties only, in order to avoid excitement and expense. That was the only place where this ar rangement had taken place. The priests were discontented with it, and boldly avowed their determination to exercise the power which they had. A confederation to carry these elections in favour of the Roman Catholic party was general throughout the country. The lowest partisans were the great objects of the partiality of the priests, and in most instances. had been elected guardians. Publicans keeping houses of the worst description, mere stews of vice, had been preferred to men of character and of landed property. But this was not all. Strange manœuvres had been tried upon the rating and valuation of tenements, particularly in the city of Dublin. In that city 314 houses had been originally rated at 107.; and yet on those houses the rating had been altered in the most Radical manner. Mr. Vaughan, a respectable valuator, had given every reason why the original rating should not be disturbed; and yet, notwithstanding his reasons, the valuation was completely altered. Mr. O'Connell, the returning-officer for the union of Ennistimon, in the county of Cavan, had publicly advised the electors to elect those and no one else. An investigation into the noble Marquess had given them any that case had been ordered, and the mi- grounds whatever for desponding as to the nutes of it were then on their Lordships' successful operation of that law which they Table. And yet all that the commis- had lately passed. No obstacle had been sioners had said to that gentleman thrown in the noble Marquess's way in was, that if he acted thus again, he making out his case; all the papers which should be removed from his situation. he had moved for were given without diffiThe Poor-law Commissioner appointed culty. He certainly thought that the noble in the county of Westmeath was a Dr. Marquess must have been imposed on by Phelan, who had been a member of the some person, who furnished him with National Association. Of this the Go- these details, and that they would eventuvernment was perfectly aware at the pe- ally turn out to be unfounded. His inriod of his appointment. A meeting had formation was completely at variance with been held in Mullingar for the purpose of that of the noble Marquess on this subdividing the county into unions, where Dr. ject. He thought that the noble MarPhelan attended, and made some state- quess had selected for his statement every ments as to the population of certain case in which an appeal had been made. parishes which he had formed into unions, There were in Ireland 104 unions estabwhich had since turned out to be utterly lished, and there had been thirty-four refalse. Another very gross case had oc- elections. As far as they could judge from curred at Cashel, where the object was, to the papers on their Lordships' table, there exclude the landed proprietors from those were only fourteen complaints. It should elections. The election at Cashel took be understood that many of these unions place at such an hour (contrary to the contained several electoral divisions; and notification contained in the advertise- that of the complaints several were not ment), that it was concluded entirely be- from unions, but merely from electoral hind the backs of the landed gentry, and divisions. It was really surprising how a noble Friend of his (Lord Hawarden) very small a portion of the noble Mar. had made a complaint to the Poor-law quess's statement was confirmed by the commissioners on the subject. All these papers on their Lordships' table. It was circumstances tended to show that a sys-true that forgery had been brought home tem prevailed throughout Ireland, which to two policemen in the North Dublin rendered it necessary for Parliament to Union. The Poor-law commissioners forinterfere immediately with the view of warded the particulars to the Government, providing some strong remedy. The ex- one policeman was dismissed, while the isting power of appeal he held to be of no other was forced to resign. Another comsubstantial advantage whatever. He sub-plaint had been made in the Mallow mitted, therefore, that he had made out a case for a committee of inquiry into the working of the Poor-law in Ireland, according to the terms of his motion, which he concluded by submitting to their Lordships, Union against a policeman for similar misconduct. An investigation had taken place, and was conducted by the assistant Poor-law commissioner. Three magistrates superintended, and he would take a speedy opportunity of submitting to their LordThe Marquess of Normanby thought ships these magistrates' opinion. He would, that the noble Marquess had selected his however, admit that this was a part of the cases somewhat capriciously. He had subject well worthy of the consideration of commenced by stating with perfect can- the Poor-law commissioners. It might be dour that he had been originally an op- beneficial to inquire whether any additional ponent of the Poor-law, both in their guards could be established on the transLordships' House and elsewhere. The mission of those voting papers, and the noble Marquess had proceeded to observe commissioners had for some time back had that the working of this system in Ireland the matter under their consideration, and had assumed an entirely political aspect. he trusted that that investigation would He was ready to admit, that in some parts be productive of much good. The noble of Ireland there had been partial instances Marquess had alluded to Leitrim, and had of political bias; but he thought that this mentioned cases of abuse which had ochad been also observable in the case of curred in that part of the country. But the election of the ex-officio guardians. it was impossible for their Lordships to Mr. O'Connell, and no repetition of the offence had since taken place. As to what the noble Marquess had stated with respect to Westmeath, it was impossible for their Lordships, he conceived, to appoint a committee for the purpose of inquiring whether certain portions of an estate adjoined each other or not. The noble Marquess had candidly acknowledged that he had been misinformed as to the subject of the correspondence on their Lordships' table, and if the noble Marquess was so egregiously mistaken in 1839, it was for their Lordships to consider whether they would grant a committee upon statements which the noble Marquess might three weeks hence acknowledge to be completely wrong. As to the case of New Ross, he did not think that the noble Marquess had opened it sufficiently to induce him to trouble their Lordships with any remarks with respect to it. He was persuaded that the origin of all these things began with the ex-officio guardians, who were anxious to exclude, not only Roman Catholics, but all persons differing from them in po have been desirable that the noble Mar- | time of the election, because such a step quess should have moved in the first place would have the effect of stopping all the for the production of papers relative to proceedings. When the election was those outrages, and the proceedings of over, however, the commissioners commuthose armed parties to which he had al-nicated their opinion on the subject to luded. At present there were no means of ascertaining whether those outrages were of a character to call for inquiry from their Lordships. He had been in formed, however, by a Member of the other House of Parliament, that the noble Marquess was entirely mistaken as to Leitrim, and that nothing of the kind which he had stated had taken place there. This showed the necessity of having on the table papers in regard to those transactions on which their Lordships could rely, and how little dependence was to be placed on communications made by interested parties. He was perfectly ready to meet the noble Marquess on the cases contained in the papers upon the table of the House, but it was impossible to answer at once every complaint brought forward where no notice was given. The noble Marquess had stated that only persons of the lowest class found favour with the priests, and were appointed guardians. Now, he was informed on authority on which he placed perfect confidence, that it was by no means persons of this description who were elected guardians. On the contrary, respect-litical opinion. In New Ross there had able farmers had generally been elected, who were well qualified for the office, and who had been found to perform their duty in a satisfactory manner. When, therefore, the noble Marquess was misinformed as to the character of the persons elected, and as to what had taken place in Leitrim, was it not possible that he was also misin-senting to this motion, they added another formed as to the other cases which had been brought before their Lordships? At all events when the statements were of such a conflicting nature their Lordships would see the necessity which existed for having official papers on the Table of the House before deciding whether there was sufficient ground for the appointment of a committee. With regard to the South Dublin union, there again the noble Marquess was misinformed. He had received a communication from the Poor-law Commissioner, from which he found that the valuator alluded to had admitted his error, but another person had been appointed in his place. In the case of Mr. O'Connell, the commissioner stated that been a direct exclusion of all the liberal party from the bench, save one. That such things had taken place was deeply to be regretted. There were faults on both sides; but practically speaking, the bill was working well, and he was sure their Lordships would hesitate before, by con to the many difficulties which the commissioners experienced in carrying the bill into effect. He would put it to their Lordships whether it was possible to consent to a motion of this kind upon such grounds as had been laid by the noble Marquess. There were many parts of the papers upon the table which he wished to explain, but considering the state of the House, and the period of the evening, he should refrain from doing so, and would confidently leave the fate of the motion in their Lordships' hands. The Duke of Wellington said, when this bill was under discussion in their Lordships' House, it was obvious that the execution of its provisions would be a firmly believed, that the measure never would have passed that House if certain benefit of the recess in order to set the administered throughout Ireland. With which had taken place in the two Parliamentary boroughs of the county Tippeamendments had not been introduced to localize as much as was possible the ex-matter right, and to have the law properly penditure, and to throw it upon the proprietors for the support of the paupers on their estates and town lands, so as to give them an additional interest in the welfare of the people, and to induce them to take care of those unfortunate persons, not from motives of humanity alone, but also from motives of economy. It would have been impossible, considering the state of Ireland, to execute this measure, if strong powers had not been established in the Poor-law commissioners, and accordingly very strong powers indeed had been confided to them as to the election, the appointment, and the duties, of the guardians. The commissioners had the power to dismiss the guardians and appoint others in their place, as well as to do every other thing which it was necessary to do in order to enable them to carry the measure into effect as the law intended. In order that Parliament, and the public, and the Government, might know what was passing, the commissioners were required to keep a record of all their correspondence, and it was in the power of their Lordships, of the public, and of the proprietors of Ireland, to make complaints to the commissioners and to place on record all that passed, so as to enable that House or the Government to see whether further inquiry was necessary. That, however, had not been done. The intentions of Parliament had not been carried into effect. The grossest abuse had certainly taken place at some of the elections of guardians; but then the poorlaw commissioners had not done their duty in bringing the circumstances connected with those elections under their cognizance, and properly recording them. In point of fact, therefore, their Lordships could not take cognizance of them. Besides, it was absolutely impossible, as stated by the noble Marquess (the Marquess of Normanby), to enter, at this late period of the Session, into such an inquiry, as the noble Marquess behind him demanded, with the hope of adopting any ulterior measures this Session, or indeed, without injuring the operation of the Poor law in Ireland. Their Lordships had not materials, as far as he could see, to be brought under their consideration, and could, therefore, come to no decision during the present Session. He recom The Earl of Glengall thought, that the noble Marquess had passed rather lightly over several of the charges which had been brought forward in support of this motion, and that one in particular which related to the South Dublin Union. It appeared, that in that union 314 houses had been valued at a certain rate by the valuators in which rate an alteration had been made for reasons best known to those who made it. The value of those 314 houses had been raised from various sums to 101., and as he understood in this manner. A gentleman named Seaton, who attended at the registry session for the Radical interest, was one of a party appointed by the Poor-law guardians to go round and inspect the valuation, and having represented that those houses had been valued too low, induced the Poor-law guardians to raise them to 10., for the purpose, evidently, of conferring upon them the Parliamentary franchise. In St. Catherine's parish, the value of twenty-seven houses was raised in the same way. He had also to complain of the valuation time of the election, because such a step would have the effect of stopping all the proceedings. When the election was over, however, the commissioners communicated their opinion on the subject to Mr. O'Connell, and no repetition of the offence had since taken place. As to what the noble Marquess had stated with respect to Westmeath, it was impossible for their Lordships, he conceived, to appoint a committee for the purpose of inquiring whether certain portions of an estate adjoined each other or not. The noble Marquess had candidly acknowledged that he had been misinformed as to the subject of the correspondence on their Lordships' table, and if the noble Marquess was so egregiously mistaken in 1839, it was for their Lordships to consider whether they would grant a committee upon statements which the noble Marquess might three weeks hence acknowledge to be completely wrong. As to the case of New Ross, he did not think that the noble Marquess had opened it sufficiently to induce him to trouble their Lordships with any remarks with respect to it. He was persuaded that the origin of all these things began with the ex-officio guardians, who were anxious to exclude, not only Roman Catholics, but all persons differing from them in political opinion. In New Ross there had been a direct exclusion of all the liberal party from the bench, save one. That such things had taken place was deeply to be regretted. There were faults on both sides; but practically speaking, the bill was working well, and he was sure their Lordships would hesitate before, by con have been desirable that the noble Marquess should have moved in the first place for the production of papers relative to those outrages, and the proceedings of those armed parties to which he had alluded. At present there were no means of ascertaining whether those outrages were of a character to call for inquiry from their Lordships. He had been informed, however, by a Member of the other House of Parliament, that the noble Marquess was entirely mistaken as to Leitrim, and that nothing of the kind which he had stated had taken place there. This showed the necessity of having on the table papers in regard to those transactions on which their Lordships could rely, and how little dependence was to be placed on communications made by interested parties. He was perfectly ready to meet the noble Marquess on the cases contained in the papers upon the table of the House, but it was impossible to answer at once every complaint brought forward where no notice was given. The noble Marquess had stated that only persons of the lowest class found favour with the priests, and were appointed guardians. Now, he was informed on authority on which he placed perfect confidence, that it was by no means persons of this description who were elected guardians. On the contrary, respectable farmers had generally been elected, who were well qualified for the office, and who had been found to perform their duty in a satisfactory manner. When, therefore, the noble Marquess was misinformed as to the character of the persons elected, and as to what had taken place in Leitrim, was it not possible that he was also misin-senting to this motion, they added another formed as to the other cases which had been brought before their Lordships? At all events when the statements were of such a conflicting nature their Lordships would see the necessity which existed for having official papers on the Table of the House before deciding whether there was sufficient ground for the appointment of a committee. With regard to the South Dublin union, there again the noble Marquess was misinformed. He had received a communication from the Poor-law Commissioner, from which he found that the valuator alluded to had admitted his error, but another person had been appointed in his place. In the case of Mr. O'Connell, the commissioner stated that to the many difficulties which the commissioners experienced in carrying the bill into effect. He would put it to their Lordships whether it was possible to consent to a motion of this kind upon such grounds as had been laid by the noble Marquess. There were many parts of the papers upon the table which he wished to explain, but considering the state of the House, and the period of the evening, he should refrain from doing so, and would confidently leave the fate of the motion in their Lordships' hands. The Duke of Wellington said, when this bill was under discussion in their Lordships' House, it was obvious that the execution of its provisions would be a |