that I shall only be doing justice to all the ed Friend; but he does not end his speech great interests at stake, first, to take care there, for he commences a new discussion ihat some effective means be provided to as to the principle of the bill. Time ensure both speedy and substantial justice enough had been lost on this point before, to the person claiming to exercise the and all possible objections and motions of franchise, and, secondly, to avoid the dan-delay urged in the previous debates ; but gers and inconvenience that would result all these were overruled and got rid of on from giving our authority to decide on the second reading of the bill. It is perthese claims into other hands. And I fectly competent to the noble Lord to obtrust, Sir, we shall not be found in conclu- ject to the decision of the Judges being sion to have either betrayed our duty to result both to them and to the jurisdiction made final, and to the injury which might ourselves or neglected our duty to others; of this House by the delegation of our and that we shall so conduct our legisla: authority in the matter ; but it is not fair tion, that neither the supreme authority of the House in its own affairs shall be un critical hour of the night in discussing in him to occupy twenty minutes at this dermined, nor the purity of the Judges topics not before us, and already very suffiplaced in a questionable predicament by ciently debated, apparently to serve no the duties we shall delegate to them. earthly purpose but delay, and so to gratify Sir Robert Peel said, -Sir, the course or conciliate the opponents of the measure. pursued in this House to-night appears to I am quite surprised that the noble Lord me to vary from any course which we and his Government can submit to the have hitherto been accustomed to. After humiliation that he and they have submitrepeated trials of the strength of each side ted to, in lending themselves to aid the of the House, its opinion was taken, and covert attempt to strike a blow at my noble it was agreed to go into Committee. The Friend and his bill. He is denounced as if noble Lord then said, he would not be a he were guilty of the greatest constitutional party to any unfair obstructions, but he enormity, because he gives a right of appeal seems now to forget that he has been pro against the claimant to vote to the Judges ducing that effect in practice. We entered of Assize. Yet what does an enactment into Committee, but small progress was say in a bill submitted to this House, in made. We gol through three clauses with | 1835, that in the cases specified, " it shall some difficulty, and find ourselves unfairly or may be lawful for the parties to appeal obstructed in the fourth. Only look, Sir, to the next going Judge of Assize.” This at what course has been pursued. Notice bill was not brought in by my noble Friend, was given “to move an instruction to the but by the legal advisers of her Majesty's Committee on the Registration of Votes Government, by the then Sergeant O'Logh(Ireland) (No. I.) Bill, to define muni- len and Mr. Perrin. And yet the noble cipal cesses and taxes." (Mr. O'Connell Lord who approved and supported that - It is the notice on the paper, but clause now turns round and denounces my is not the one intended. It is a mis- noble Friend, because he has brought in a take.]—I was contradicted when I said the bill making the decision of the Judges cons hon. and learned Member had put such a clusive against the House of Commons. I notice on the papers ; but he says it was recollect that the noble Lord gave it as a not that intended. Now what means can reason for supporting that bill in 1835, we have of judging respecting an hon. that it contained such a clause, and now Member's intentions, or the business to be he comes forward to repudiate the acts of attended to, except the notice on the paper? those now absent, who acted under his own Had not my noble Friend a right to con- authority. The noble Lord said the other sider what was stated on the paper was the night, in speaking of Mr. J.JPerrin, that he business of the night? No intimation of was so satisfied of the identity of feeling change of intention was given either pub-existing between her Majesty's Governlicly or privately; but when my noble ment and Mr. James Perrin, that the latter Friend was pressed he goes on with the was quite ready and willing to be thrown business. The noble Lord did not dis- overboard if they deemed it expedient. I countenance the proceedings entered on at hope the noble Lord really knows nothing an earlier period, but just at the moment of the fact of that Judge, or any other that there was a hope that some progress Judge, being ready co do so; but if he might have been made, he says he intends does, I hope that he has, in common con Elliot, hon. J. E. mas poured out against that Government | Edwards, Sir J. The House divided on Mr. O'Connell's Motion:-Ayes 162; Noes 311: Majority 149. Duke, Sir J. Duncan, Viscount Dundas, Sir R. Howard, hn. E. G. G. Staunton, Sir G. T. Strickland, Sir G. Strutt, E. Tancred, H. W. Turner, E. Thornely, T. Turner, W. Vigors, N. A. Villiers, hon. C, P. Wakley, T. Lushington, rt. hn. S. Wallace, R. Loch, J. Lushington, C. Lynch, A. H. Maher, J. Mactaggart, J. Marsland, H. Melgund, Viscount Muntz, G. F. Murray, A. Muskett, G. A. Norreys, Sir D. J. Westenra, hon. J. C. White, A. White, W. Williams, W. TELLERS. O'Connell, D. List of the NOES. Bradshaw, J. Filmer, Sir E. Inglis, Sir R. H. Irton, S. Powerscourt, Visct. Fitzalan, Lord Fitzroy, lion. H. Bramston, T. W. Broadwood, H. Brooke, Sir A. B. Brownrigg, S. Bruce, Lord E. Bruce, C. L. C. Bruges, W. H. L. Fleming, J. Freemantle, Sir T. Buck, L. W. Buller, Sir J. Y. Bulwer, Sir L. Gladstone, W. E. Burrell, Sir C. Burroughes, H. N. Glynne, Sir S. R. Goddard, A. Byng, G. Gordon, R. Campbell, Sir H. Clayton, Sir W. R. Gordon, hon. Captain Goulburn, rt. hon. H. Irving, J. Jackson, Sergeant Knatchbull, right hon. Lowther, hon. Col. Polhill, F. Pollen, Sir J. W. HOUSE OF LORDS, Friday, July 3, 1840. MINUTES.] Bills. Received the Royal Assent:-Sugar Duties; Timber Duties; Glass Duties; Tobacco Regulations; Poor Clergy Maintenance; Prisons; Frivolous Suits; Colonial Passengers; Rated Inhabitants Evidence; and Vagrants Removal.-Read a first time :-Caledonian Canal. Read a third time:- Masters in Chancery. CHURCH OF SCOTLAND.] The Earl of Rosebery had to present to their Lordships a petition from the parishioners of Marnock, approving of the conduct of the General Assembly in the case of the suspension of the seven ministers of the Presbytery of Strathbogie. The petition, went much into detail, he would content himself with stating the substance of it. The petitioners disapproved of the conduct of the seven ministers of Strathbogie in not obeying the directions of the commission of the General Assembly, their ecclesiastical superiors; and they applauded the conduct of the General Assembly in supporting the jurisdiction and the liberties of the Church against the intrusion of objectionable ministers. They earnestly trusted and hoped that the Church of Scotland would not suffer from the attempts of any of her own officebearers to set at defiance her just authority, and overbear the religious privileges and conscientious feelings of her people, and they prayed that their Lordships would adopt such measures as may seem best for reconciling the differences which have oc tical courts, and enabling the Church to give effect to the principles of her constitution relative to the settlement of ministers. The Earl of Aberdeen said, that the prayer of this petition called upon their Lordships to adopt some measure to reconcile the differences between the civil and ecclesiastical courts; but the petition itself was manifestly directed against the solemnly delivered judgment of their Lordships' House. The noble Earl had given no opinion on that judgment, and, as he had said nothing against it, he was warranted in concluding that the noble Earl coincided in its justice. It was very proper that the petitioners should pray, that an end should be put to the present state of things with respect to this question; but he must observe, that neither this year nor last year had any petitions been received on the subject from the General Assembly. No: the petition then before their Lordships stated, "That the Church was engaged in a negotiation for the settlement of the whole matter in dispute." In the course of that negotiation, it might be attempted to impose terms which could not be acceded to. The Assembly did not come before their Lordships as they ought to do, but they came before their Lordships as a party negociating with the Legislature for a satisfactory settlement of this question. The only complaint made against the seven ministers mentioned in the petition was, that they had obeyed the law. No human wisdom or ingenuity could devise any other charge against them. A decree was pronounced by a competent tribunal, to which they were obliged to yield obedience, otherwise they would have been liable to an action for damages. Their obedience to that decree was the whole matter of complaint urged by the petitioners against these ministers who, if they had disobeyed the law, would have been exposed to a legal proceeding. Petition laid on the table. Lord POLITICAL PRISONERS.] Brougham had to present a petition to which he wished to call the particular attention of the noble Secretary for the Home Department, as it contained a very serous complaint of ill-usage in one of her Majesty's prisons. The noble and learned Lord read an extract from the petition which stated that : HEALTH OF TOWNS (SCOTLAND).] The Earl of Haddington wished to put a question to the noble Marquess opposite. He understood, from the public newspapers, that the Poor-law Commissioners had sent forth instructions for an inquiry, similar to that which had been set on foot in this country, as to the cause of fevers and contagious disorders amongst the poorer classes in Scotland, and the best West Riding of the county of York, and now a prisoner in Wakefield House of Correction, was tried at the Yorkshire Lent Assizes, 1840, and convicted of attending an illegal meeting, which was held at Barnsley on the 16th of July, 1839, and sentenced to two years' imprisonment in Wakefield House of Correction, subject to the most severe discipline; that your petitioner is a man of very bad health; he has been afflicted with a disease of the liver more than six years, and is at present very ill, not only of that complaint, but is like-mode of prevention. There could be but wise labouring under a pulmonary affection, which he feels assured must prove fatal if some change be not made in his treatment. He is locked up in his sleeping cell at six o'clock at night, a room about eight feet by six, where he must not walk about, or make the least noise whatever, but remain in perfect silence, till he is let out at six o'clock in the morning, at which hour he is taken into the day-room, and placed among the convicted misdemeanants, and he must there sit on a form with his face in one particular direction, in order that the officers may see the whole of the face; he must sit there until nearly seven o'clock in the evening, when he is again locked up in the sleeping cell. It is entirely close confinement; he cannot walk out into a yard, unless when sick, and then an officer is appointed to take a number of sick prisoners, and move them round a small yard about twenty minutes; this may be allowed twice or three times a week. On pain of being placed in dark solitary confinement for three days, to be allowed no more than half a pound of bread and cold water per day: he must not hang down his head so that his face cannot be clearly seen by the officers; he must not speak under any circumstances to any other prisoner; he must not stoop down to take any thing from the ground; he must not turn his head any way; he must not stand up; he must not laugh or smile, or make a motion with his lips or his hands to another prisoner; he must not look a prisoner in the face. If he want to attend the call of nature, he must put his cap on, and wait till called by one of the officers, which will sometimes be an hour and a half, there are so many in the room." The petitioner prayed, that their Lordships would be pleased to make intercession for mercy to be extended to him, "in order that he may be saved from certain death." This petition had been sent to him by a very respectable individual, and, though he could scarcely believe the statements, yet he felt it to be his duty to present the petition. The Marquess of Normanby would immediately make inquiries into the truth of the statements, but he was of opinion that they were greatly exaggerated. Petition laid on the table. one opinion on the mind of every man of humanity as to the propriety of instituting inquiries of this kind. He did not, however, think the Poor-law Commissioners the proper parties to whom such an inquiry should be intrusted. Besides, he was apprehensive that the appointment of inspectors, by the Poor-law Commissioners, would lead the people to fear that an attempt was about to be made to tamper with the system which at present prevailed in Scotland with reference to the care of the poor. The inspectors were instructed to inquire into the rents paid by the poorer classes, the amount of wages they received, the ratio of expenditure, the capability of maintenance, &c. Now, he thought it would be better for those persons to confine their inquiries simply to the prevalence of disease, and the causes from which it was supposed to arise. He believed, if such questions were demanded, very few persons, clergymen or others, would be found willing to answer them. He should, therefore, ask whether such instructions as he referred to had been sent out? If so, what those instructions specifically were? and whether the commissioners had any power to inquire into the working of the Scotch Poor-law system? If instructions had been given, he wished to know whether the noble Marquess had any objection to lay them on the Table, together with a copy of the circular by which they were accompanied. The Marquess of Normanby said, an inquiry into the cause of infectious disease having been set on foot in one district in England, had afterwards been extended throughout the country. In consequence, the town-council of Edinburgh, and the College of Physicians and Surgeons there, requested that a similar course should be adopted with respect to Scotland, and subsequently a petition to the same effect had been sent from Glasgow. Upon these |