France and England were the foremost Jan understanding on the subject, that and most enlightened Governments in Eu- must not be a matter of surprise to her. rope, for in them alone was there any- In the course of the negotiations which thing like liberal government or institu- were then carried on with the view of tions, and, united, these two great coun- arriving at a general conclusion, a projet tries could secure the peace of Europe: was drawn up on our side which was prebut in this matter France unfortunately sented to France, which was answered by imagined that this country had left or a contre projet on her part. Thus there abandoned her, to court the alliance of was one plan furnished on our side, and the other powers. Whatever advantages another on the part of France. We then the noble Lord imagined might be ob- offered a middle course to which France tained in the East by these negotiations, stated, that she could not agree. Again, they were as nothing in comparison to between two and three months before the the evils that would arise from the breach convention was signed, a communication of the alliance between England and was made to her on this subject, and it France. He would only add, that he was distinctly stated to be the extreme to sincerely hoped that this was not the first which the other powers were prepared to step towards a change of policy on the part go. After two months' deliberation she of this country. He hoped that there gave pointed and conclusive reasons whyshe was no feeling in the present Government, could not be a party to this arrangement. and he hoped that there would be no such The four powers then determined, in acfeeling in any Tory Government that cordance with the regulation already made might succeed it, that there was a too with France, that they would join in carliberal feeling growing up in France for rying the arrangement into effect, and noan intimate alliance with this country, tice of the same was given to the French and that, therefore, it was expedient to Minister two days after it was completed. unite with other governments more dis- In the case of the convention made beposed to these views. He hoped that the tween France and England alone, in renoble Lord would distinctly state that no ference to Belgium, notice of the same affront whatever was intended to France was not communicated to the other powers in any steps of this negotiation, and he till some time after. must add, that for his own part he did not believe that either the noble Lord or any one else could commit such a blunder. Viscount Palmerston said, that although it was not exactly in order, he trusted that the House would allow him to make one or two observations in consequence of what had fallen from the hon. Gentleman who had just sat down. He could assure the hon. Member, and he could assure the House, that there was no want of courtesy whatever towards France in the manner in which these negotiations had been carried on. During the course of the last ten months, it was the desire of all the powers to act in concert to secure the important object with respect to which they were all agreed, but it turned out, after a short time, that there was such a difference of opinion between France and the other powers as to the measures which should be adopted to insure the result which all desired, that they could not act together with any probability of arriving at a conclusion. On this being found to be the case a communication was made to France that if this difficulty continued, and the other four powers came to Motion withdrawn. HOUSE OF LORDS, Friday, August 7, 1840. MINUTES.] Bills. Received the Royal assent:-Sugar (Excise Petitions presented. By the Marquess of Westminster, from interfering, by writing or otherwise, with the political discussions that were then going on in the island. In 1834, M. Bertin and his partner, M. Petitguen, were tried before the Supreme Court of the island, and sentenced to pay a fine of 50%. for a libel on the Procureur-general. The governor, Sir W. Nicolay, admitted that the protection of the government had been extended to the petitioner so long as he conducted himself with propriety. The character of the paper, with which it afterwards appeared that the petitioner was intimately connected, had, however, entirely changed, and it had become extremely violent in its attacks on respectable officers. The petitioner was long suspected of a close connexion with the paper in which the libel appeared, but the fact was not clearly proved until the trial took place. Under these circumstances the governor had, in consequence of the state of the island, withdrawn M. Bertin's MAURITIUS. M. BERTIN.] Lord Brougham presented a petition from M. Bertin, formerly a printer and publisher in the Mauritius, praying for compensation for certain losses which he had sustained in consequence of the conduct of the government. At the time when M. Bertin was in the Mauritius, party spirit ran extremely high there, and had, in fact, broken out into acts of violence; and it was admitted, as set forth in the petition, that during that period, M. Bertin had acted as a loyal subject, that his conduct was exceedingly good, and that he gave the most zealous support to the government. At one of those periods of disturbance, when party spirit ran unusually high, the printing-office where the petitioner's business was conducted was assailed by the populace, owing to the part which he had taken in favour of the government. His life was exposed to great jeopardy, and he was obliged to put himself under the protection of the military. His partner, how-licence of residence. The petitioner then ever, compromised with the anti-government party, and thus escaped unmolested; but he preferred running any personal risk rather than compromise his opinions. He was afterwards tried before the Supreme Court of the island for a libel published in his paper, and sentenced to pay a fine of 50%, and the governor withdrew his licence of residence, in consequence of which he lost the sum of 7,300l., which it had cost him to establish his printing-office and newspaper. He stated that the article which he had published in his paper was for the purpose of vindicating his character against charges of a false and calumnious nature. He was, however, afterwards suffered to return to the island. In consequence of his great losses he applied to the Colonial Secretary for compensation; but the sum awarded was so small, that he felt it necessary to pray their Lordships to grant him relief. The Earl of Clarendon said, the facts, as set forth by the petitioner, were some what exaggerated. In 1831 the petitioner came to the island. In 1832 he set up a printing establishment, and commenced a newspaper, although he was told that he could not be recognized by the government as the registered proprietor. In the month of August, 1833, in consequence of the violent course which had been taken by certain individuals, the governor thought it necessary by proclamation to represented his case to Lord Glenelg, who gave him permission to return, stating at the same time, that he considered the sentence of the Supreme Court a perfectly proper one; and, further, that the Supreme Council formed the best tribunal for awarding compensation for the amount of losses sustained by him in consequence of his removal from the island, without reference to his situation as editor of a newspaper, he being a foreigner, and only a resident by sufferance. M. Bertin made a claim for 7,000l. as compensation, besides which he sent in a claim for damages and interest, amounting to 4,000l. more. The Legislative Council, to which body his claim had been referred by Lord Glenelg, awarded him, as expenses which he had unavoidably incurred, 1607. for his passage to London, and 17. a day during his stay there, and this award was assented to by Lord Glenelg. M. Bertin then returned to London, and, as his noble and learned Friend had truly stated, had repeatedly complained of the injustice of this award to the Colonial-office; but his noble Friend at the head of that department, considering that under all the circumstances of the case, M. Bertin had not been treated in the harsh and cruel manner which had been represented, declined to interfere. Lord Brougham contended, that it could have been no secret to Sir W. Nicolay duct of the Balance newspaper, because in August, 1833, the government had lent him some soldiers to assist in working the presses, and therefore he certainly did not wait till the trial to find out for the first time that an alien was conducting the paper. Petition laid on the table. BRITISH LEGION.] The Marquess of Londonderry said, that having read the correspondence which had recently been laid on the table respecting the claims of the British Legion, he was bound incandour to tell the noble Viscount opposite, that nothing could be more completely satisfactory than this correspondence. Their Lordships would find by a letter from our Ambassador, that a sum of 50,0001. had actually been transmitted to this country, and that the payment of the men was now going forward. It appeared, also, that there were in the hands of our Ambassador; securities for the payment of five more separate instalments of 50,000l. each; and, what was still more satisfactory, on the day of the last payment her Catholic Majesty would also allow compensation to the men, the amount of which was to be settled between the two governments. He thought that nothing could be more satisfactory to the officers and men of the Legion than this arrangement. Subject at an end. PUBLIC HEALTH (SCOTLAND).] The Earl of Haddington wished to ask one or two questions of the noble Marquess at the head of the Home-office, relative to the instructions which had been issued to the Poor-law Commissioners to inquire into the state of disease in Scotland. When he last made any observations on the subject to their Lordships, he stated his regret that these inquiries were not to be made by some other body, because he certainly felt that the employment of these gentlemen would create a feeling in Scotland that there was some idea of tampering with the Poor-laws in that country, and assimilating them to the Poor-laws of England. He had not been altogether mistaken on that point, because, as the noble Lord well knew, considerable opposition had been given by an institution in Edinburgh to the prosecution of these inquiries by the Poor-law Commissioners, and last Tuesday, in the Edinburgh town council, a petition to her Majesty, praying that she would cause inquiry to be made whether want and destitution had led to disease, and whether there were adequate means for the relief of such want and destitution, had been rejected on a division. He should therefore be very glad to hear from the noble Marquess that these gentlemen were directed only to inquire into the state and progress of disease, and that those inquiries would be confined to the large towns. As the investigation had been undertaken, he hoped it might prove successful, although he could have wished that it had been carried on by other persons than those employed; but the noble Marquess might depend on it that he would find it very desirable to remove from the public mind in Scotland anything like an impression that an intention existed of interfering at all with the system of Poor-laws in that country. The Marquess of Normanby had stated, when his noble Friend had last called the attention of the House to the subject, that the inquiries of the commissioners would be confined to the specific object of ascertaining the state and progress of disease. He was well aware that any inquiry of this kind, to be successful, must be so conducted as to conciliate the good will of those amongst whom it was carried on. The inquiries of the commissioners would be confined to the large towns, although, in his opinion, the inquiry would not be ultimately complete until it was extended in some shape or other to the rural districts. Subject at an end. RIBANDISM. REPEAL (IRELAND).] The Earl of Charleville took occasion, on presenting a petition, to read a letter in reference to the late debate on the letter addressed by Mr. Macdonald to Mr. Langford, in which the writer stated that a memorial had been presented to the Lordlieutenant, signed by those magistrates who had been named by Mr. Jackson in his letter to Colonel Macgregor, in which they denied, in the strongest and most indignant manner, the statement of the police officers. Lord Wharncliffe begged to be allowed to remark, that it appeared to him, upon reading the late Riband trials that the evidence of Mr. Rowan, given before a committee of their Lordships last year, as to the character of these associations, was perfectly well founded. The facts of their having secret signs and passwords, of there being a confederacy for the purposes of murder, and of obedience paid to the orders of superiors, completely came out in the evidence given on the trials. If it were not a political society, it was at least so formed as to be turned with ease into a political engine. He had thought it his duty to make these few observations, and it was only justice to say, that having sat on the committee, and having read the evidence that was now lying on the table, he was satisfied that Mr. Rowan had given most excellent evidence. Lord Portman said, that having been a member of the committee, he could say that the facts stated by Mr. Rowan could scarcely be disputed; but the doubt thrown on his evidence had arisen from the inferences which he drew from those facts. The Earl of Haddington was anxious to say a few words on another matter which materially related to the peace of Ireland. He adverted to that agitation which, if the newspapers were to be believed, was now going on for the repeal of the union. It appeared that not long ago in the west of Ireland a very great meeting had been held, where the real character of repeal had shown itself. There the word "separation" was used, though he never had had a doubt on his own mind that if "repeal" meant anything it meant "separation," and nothing but that. This matter appeared still more serious when they considered who the leaders of that repeal agitation were; that they were personswhether in the confidence of the Government or not he did not know-but they were persons many of whom were the most active friends and supporters of the Government, and yet they never heard any disapprobation expressed by the functionaries or the high authorities in Ireland of that agitation. It was the political character and connection with the Government of the patrons of agitation in Ireland that was one of the most dangerous incidents connected with the question of repeal. He must say, he thought the Government were highly culpable for not having expressed that disapprobation, which every man gave them credit for feeling deeply, at such mischievous and alarming agitation. That agitation too was taking place in a country where Ribandism was universally spread, and where that so an engine for effecting the purposes of the repeal agitation. The Marquess of Normanby had stated a fortnight ago, that it would be extremely inconvenient during the progress of these trials that any discussion on this subject should take place. He now only wished to say, that on the part of the Government there was every desire to give all information on the subject. Discoveries had been made of a very important nature, and the extent of the conspiracy was perfectly well known; and the Government had a right to take credit to themselves for the manner in which they had conducted the prosecutions that had arisen out of those discoveries. With regard to Mr. Rowan, he perfectly concurred in what had been stated by his noble Friend (Lord Portman). He did not think it necessary to say more on this subject at present, but if his noble Friend wished for more information in the next session of Parliament, there was every disposition on the part of the Government to furnish it. Petition laid on the table. ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE (BirMINGHAM).] The Marquess of Normanby moved the second reading of the Administration of Justice (Birmingham) Bill. It would have been introduced at an earlier period of the Session, but the Government had been waiting for the decision of the judges on the legality of the charter. Not having been able to obtain that decision, they had brought in this bill to make temporary provision for the administration of justice in Birmingham, and leaving the question of the legality of the charter wholly untouched. The Earl of Warwick thought they had got into difficulties which this bill would only tend to perpetuate. From the length of time the judges had taken for their decision, there must be great doubt upon the question of the legality of the charter, but his belief was, their decision would be against it. When the Government discovered the doubt, they ought to have stopped their proceedings, and left the administration of justice in the same hands it was in before. The quarter sessions of Birmingham were now held and paid for by funds paid out of the Treasury. The prisoners were sent over first from Birmingham to Warwick gaol, then back to were returned to Warwick to be imprisoned. Now, let the charter turn out how it might, that could not be altered, as there was no gaol at Birmingham. Birmingham had hitherto been without a corporation, and might it not have gone on in the same way for another year? The Government might now restore matters to the former system, but, having got into this danger, they now called on Parliament to sanction their proceedings. Suppose the charter was declared illegal, he would ask, in such case, whether the prisoners who had been convicted during the charter were legally convicted? It was embarking in a difficulty which he could not sanction, and he should therefore move, that this bill be read a second time this day three months. Lorn Wharncliffe said, the question was, had there been any legal quarter sessions whatever? He believed, that every man tried had been illegally tried. Lord Calthorpe said, it would be difficult to imagine any circumstances less favourable than those under which it was proposed to admit Birmingham to the functions of a corporation, and this was especially the case as regarded that part of those functions which related to the administration of justice. He always thought that so important a town as Birmingham ought to possess a corporation, but he was unfavourable to the present bill, because it would not effect that object; it would give to Birmingham not the reality but the fiction of a corporation, and he apprehended that the course which Ministers were taking would lead to the necessity of passing bills of indemnity. Now, although he should not much object to a bill of indemnity where the parties acted in ignorance, he should by no means concur in any step which would invite the commission of acts requiring such remedies. Second reading put off for six months. COURTS OF EQUITY.] Lord Brougham moved, that the amendments made by the Commons in the Administration of Justice (Court of Chancery) Bill be then agreed to. The noble and learned Lord observed, that there were two of those amendments in which which he fully concurred; one related to the increased control proposed to be given to the Lord Chancellor over the officers of the court; creasing the efficiency of those officers as to numbers. There were several amendments made by the Commons which he should have gladly introduced into the original bill, and he, therefore, very much rejoiced to find that those alterations had been made by the other House. He was, also, glad to find that they had introduced the necessary money clauses and the clause for compensation. He confessed he felt some surprise that so much had been said elsewhere upon the subject of the Six Clerks, seeing that that department had long since been the subject of a bill which even reached a second reading. He hoped, that the next measure would be a bill for improving the administration of justice by the committee of the Privy Council. One of the evils of that tribunal was, that the judges who composed it were under no obligation to give their attendance, and in that respect they resembled the House of Lords. In former bills for improving the administration of justice the difficulty which presented itself related to the means of providing for the expenses of the proposed alterations; but he believed it would now be admitted, that that which was so precious as the administration of justice could not be purchased at too high a price. Commons' Amendments agreed to. ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS.] The Lord Chancellor moved, that the House do resolve itself into a committee on the Ecclesiastical Courts Bill (No. 1). The Bill went through committee. The Earl of Devon proposed the addition of a clause to the bill, to the effect that John Thorogood should not be released until the rate and costs were paid either by himself, or some other person or persons. The Lord Chancellor said, that the insertion of such a clause would frustrate the purpose of the bill. Besides no act of Parliament was necessary to make it imperative on persons in the situation of John Thorogood to pay the debt and costs of the suit, before they were released from prison. The Duke of Wellington thought the case was a very simple one, and that there could be no doubt as to the course which should be taken. Here was a man who had been sued for a sum of money, which |