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or canals, or to trustees of roads, for the use of the allies, which or to any persons engaged in pub. amounted to no less than three lic works now in progress, or a- millions during the war. That the bout to undertake them. The as- general demand of goods for the sociations for the encouragement foreign trade had not suffered in of the fisheries would likewise be an equal proportion, he concluded a very proper institution to receive from the official value of the exaid. In Ireland it would not be ports of steel and iron from the practicable to nominate a similar year 1814. From the persons best commission without such a delay acquainted with the trade of the as would defeat the purpose of the country, he thought that a loan grant. It would be necessary to of 30 or 40,0001. to the manfacenter into a correspondence with turers of Birmingham would be that country to know what gen- of material service in the present tleman would undertake a duty exigence. The right hon. gentlewhich would entail some trouble man concluded with proposing his without any prospect of reward. first resolution. To avoid that delay, the sum ap Several members found it nepropriated to that country would cessary to desire explanations from be placed at the disposal of the the Chancellor of the Exchequer relord-lieutenant.

specting different subjects; whilst With respect to advances on the others were very doubtful whether security of the poor-rates, he had any good would be the result of never thought that any thing could his project. The resolution was, be done towards the relief of the however, put and carried ; as was agricultural population by the loan also the second concerning Ireof any such sum as he then pro- land. posed to advance. He was also On the 14th of May, the Chanafraid that loans to the agricultu- cellor of the Exchequer rose to ral districts in aid of the poor- inore the order of the day, that rates, would encourage the prac the House would resolve itself tice of curtailing the fair wages into a committee, to take into of labour, and supplying the de- consideration the bill for the Emficiency from such a source. When ployment of the Poor. He said the bill came bufore the House he had introduced a considerable the would be found clauses number of amendments into the which would gusrd against such bill, which he thought would rean d... The.dvance to be grant- mine some of the objections raised ed to probes was never to ex- to it. He would not at present ceed the half of tre last year's enter into the merits of these rate, and no ads.ance was to be amendments, as a better oppormade to any parish except where tunity would hereafter occur. the rate was duble the average of Some additional observations the two pieredling stars. Speak were made upon the bill; after ing of the particular dintsesses of which the report was brought up, Birmingham, he attributed a con- and a day was appointed for a mile abie part of it w the fulling farther consideration. oil of the supply of small arms On the 21st of May, on the

motion for recommitting this bill, that he had the previous sanction various objections were made to of his Majesty's ministers; for its principle, which were replied a committee of their own appointto by its friends. The House then ment had been named in the last year went into a committee, and a by the lords of the treasury for purdesultory conversation took place poses under which this subject paron its several clauses. The bill ticularly fell. They were confined afterwards passed.

in their operations to all offices In the House of Lords it was created since the commencement introduced by the Earl of Liver- of the war in 1793. The office of pool, who briefly stated its objects, third secretary of state had been on June 10th. The Earl of Lau- created in 1794 ; and how it could derdale spoke against it, but no escape the notice of the committee division being proposed, the bill was to him quite unintelligible. was read a third time, and passed. All the right hon. gentleman

It is observable, that when the said) that he had now to do, was first mention was made of an in- to make out a case strong enough tention of introducing such a bill, to refer the subject to the examiby the Chancellor of the Exche- nation of a committee. The inquer, the sum of money which he crease of colonies since 1792, was spoke of proposing was between all that he had to meet. These one and two millions. But the were, in fact, nine in number, for actual sum contained in his two he would not include Heligoland, resolutions amounts only to nor yet St. Helena. Four of these 750,000l. and it does not appear were in the West Indies, three in that any thing farther was re the East Indies, and two in the quired.

Mediterranean. Those in the
West Indies were nowise con-
nected with those in the East
Indies, and neither of them with

those in the Mediterranean. His On April 29th, Mr. Tierney rose proposal was therefore to make to renew, in point of substance, over the four first to the home though not of form, a motion re- department; the three next to the lative to the abolition of the office board of control, and (said he) of third secretary of state for the they might add St. Helena, though colonies, in which he had been de- it would not give much additional feated during the sessions of the trouble; as it might rather be last year. He now intended to considered as a gaol under the move for a committee to inquire care of the police of Europe. into that subject; not, he said, Malta should belong to the foreign that there were any doubts in his secretary. As to the lonjan own mind as to the propriety of islands, he scarcely knew how to abolishing the office; but because speak, whether they were our own he saw that in questions of this or not; but he apprehended that kind, he had not the smallest the nature of Sir Thomas Maitchance of success in any other land's connexion with them was way. One great inducement for not colonial, but purely political. hiin to undertake this subject was, After various other observations

THIRD SECRETARY OF STATE FOR

COLONIES.

on

on the subject, partly serious and but the fact was otherwise; for partly sarcastic, he concluded by the war had only made a differmoving, That a committee be ence of about 500 pages per appointed to take into considera- annum, and the remainder was tion the business now remaining occasioned by the ordinary influx to be executed by the secretary of of business. This difference, in a state for the war and .colonial de great degree, was imputed by the partment, and to report their opi- right hon. gentleman to the exnion, whether the continuance of tension of education in

every quarthe same be any longer necessary; ter of the empire, which has afand whether the duties performed forded to almost every person in by the said department may with- public life, the opportunity of adout inconvenience to the public dressing the different offices of service be transferred to any other government. It was this which offices, and with what diminution had created the necessity for a of charge."

third secretary of state, and had Mr. Goulburn said, that the increased the public business beperiod which had elapsed between yond all former precedent. the first institution of the colonial Mr. Wilberforce declared, that department in 1768 and 1782, from all he knew and heard of would form a fit subject of com the office in question, it was overparison with that which had loaded with business; and such, elapsed between 1802 and 1916; from what he understood, was for which purpose he would take the case in the home department, the pages of entry in the books of The House then should duly conoffice as a fair criterion. In the sider, whether the business of 14 years of the first period, the the colonies would be exposed to number of pages for twelve colo- any neglect by acceding to the niez amounted to 3139, giving an proposed arrangement. He was average of about 224 for ea hof opinion that it required an inyear. The same twelve colonies dividual of great consideration to in the second period filled a num look after concerns so important ber of pages amounting to 6098, to the public interests : a person forming an average of about 4:35 who should hold a high station in for each year ; so that the quan- the public eye. The saving of tity of business in these colonies 12,0001. a year was, doubtless, a was nearly doubled. But if the serious consideration ; but the whole business of the North Aine- question was, whether the saving rican colonies be added to that of of 12,0001, a year would not be the twelve above stated, and op- much too dearly purchased ty posed to each other in the two hazarding the good government periods, the disparity would be of the colonies. It appeared to found infinitely greater. The num him, that the superintendence of ber of pages written from 1768 our colonial concerns should contu 1782, averages 4 16 per annum; stitute the business of a distinct, whilst that from 1802 to 1816 efficient, and dignified departrises to 1994. It inight be sup ment. posed that the increase in the latter Mr. Ponsonby, in allusion to the period was occasioned by the war: last speaker, and the compliments

he

he had bestowed upon the mover having been applied to by the of the question, said he was one Roman Catholics of Ireland to who would give any thing to a bring their case under the consiman but his vote. He proceeded deration of the House, he now to say, that there was only one proceeded to discharge the duty solid reason that could be urged he had undertaken. The resoluagainst the present motion, and tion which he intended to move that was, that the departments was the same which was carried anjong which the business of the in 1813, and does no more than colonies was proposed to be di- to pledge the House to examine vided, were already over-worked the penal laws, with a view to rewith their own separate concerns. lieve the Catholics, to give every But none of those persons stepped security possible to the Protestant forward to make such a declara- establishment, and ultimately to tion, because they knew full well satisfy all ranks and orders of that the state of the case would men in the empire. He proceeded not bear them out. After all to say, that the present question (said he) what was the inotion ? was not about the means by which Did it invite the House at once to securities might be effected, but abɔlish the office ? All his right whether any securities whatever Hon. Friend wanted was, that they will be received. There is a comshould go into an inquiry whether munication between the Pope and they could save 12,000l. a year to the Catholic clergy, which must

end either in incorporation with After some other speakers had the see of Rome, or connexion delivered their opinion on both with the government of Engsides, the House divided, when land; and if the latter be refused, i there appeared,

For the will be dangerous to the safety tion 87, Against it 190: Ma- of England. jority 103.

The right hon. gentleman, wlio reserved himself for a reply, now moved, “ That this House will re

solve itself into a committee of On May 9th, Mr. Gratlan, on the whole llouse, to take into rising to submit to the House of its most serious consideration the Commons his motion on the sub- state of the laws affecting his ject of the Roman Catholic claims, Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects moved that the petition of the in Great Britain and Ireland, with Roman Catholics of Ireland to a view to such final and conciliathe llouse, presented on April 26, tory adjustinent as may be con1816, should be rea:l. This being ducive to the peace and strength done accordingly, Mr. W. Elliot of the United Kingdom, to the next moved, that the petition of stability of the Protestant estab. the Roman Catholics of England lishment, ard to the general satispresented on May the 21st, 1816, faction and concord of all classes should also be read; which was of his Majesty's subjects.” done.

The motion having been Mr. Grattan then said, that conded and put from the chair, Vol. LIX.

[E]

Mr.

the country

mo.

ROMAN CATHOLIC QUESTION.

se

Mr. Leslie Foster rose, and after treated by the different powers of stating the character of the two Europe, which he borrowed from parties into which the Irish Ca. the work of Sir J. C. Hippesley. tholics were divided during the He concluded, We have thus, Sir, last year, he proceeded to show looked around Europe, and seen what the conditions are on which Calvinists, and Lutherans, and they seem now agreed. The no Roman Catholics, and Christians mination of the Bishops has for a of the Greek communion, agreelong time heen as practically do- ing in two propositions : first, mestic as any possible arrange- that the patronage of the higher ment can make it. When a see stations of the Catholic clergy is vacant, a recommendation is must be vested in the state ; and forwarded to Rome from Ireland, secondly, that the most vigorous and within memory not more superintendence must be exerthan two or three instances have eised over all their communica. occurred of any difficulty in con tions with the see of Rome. And firming this choice. Lately, it is therefore, when the right honoursaid, the persons thus nominated able gentleman asks, whether this in Ireland have been the coadju- country will continue to be the tors of the deceased bishop, who only great nation that shall perhas been selected by the bishop in sist in intolerance, I say, that his his life-time. The transmission question rather ought to be, wheof the episcopal rank has there. ther this nation will determine to fore, in practice, been a mere be the only one in Europe which matter of testamentary bequest. shall consent to place the Roman Some persons, it seems, now pro- Catholic religion in a situation so pose that the elections shall here- free from all practical control, as after be made by the deans and to form a complete imperium in chapters ; but if they should, will imperio within its bosom. this mode be either less doinestic, Mr. Yorke said, that the great or more conducive to give satis- difficulty he had always found of faction to a Protestant, than the bringing this question to a satis present? The proposition of do- factory result was the foreign inmestic nomination is distinctly Auence ; and no consideration this—that the Protestants and could induce him to yield in any Catholics having each much to material degree to the petitions of require, and much to give up, the the Roman Catholics, but the prosProtestants are to cede all that pect of security to the Protestant remains, and the Catholics are to establishment from such an influmake the single concession of re

In formerly giving his maining exactly as they are, as the opinion on this subject, he had ground of being admitted to & always said, that he thought it could complete participation of poli- only be usefully taken up when

the Pope was master of himself. After some discussion of the This was now the case; and the principle of the veto, Mr. L. F. question appeared to stand upon proceeded to the consideration of more favourable ground with rethe manner in which the Pope is spect to any communications that

ence.

tical power.

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