549 FEB. 16, 1827. 550 always considered it desirable, that the Expenditure and Income of the Country. fix. He therefore made no estimate on the subject, because, under such circumstances, any estimate must have been delusive. It thus appeared, that if the referees had not concluded the transaction with more expedition than was anticipated, the balance-sheet of the present year would have been less unfavourable, by the amount of the sum to which he had just adverted. The House, however, would observe, that this purchase was not an item of expenditure bringing no return; but that it was the purchase of an improving annuity. The present times were unprosperous; but, nevertheless, in the present year, this 150,000l. was bringing in an improving revenue, and was now paying above 5 per cent. He repeated, therefore, that this could not be called an item of expenditure in the ordinary meaning of the expression. Then there was the money advanced in pursuance of act of parliament to the corporation of London, to assist in building London-bridge. That stood on just the same ground. It was impossible for him at the beginning of the year, before the corporation of London knew what would be the expense of the undertaking, and whether it would be necessary for them to enforce the provisions of the act, by calling on the Treasury to advance them a loan on the credit of the Orphans' Fund, to introduce to parliament any estimate on this subject. In fact, the city of London would never have applied to the Treasury for pecuniary aid for this purpose, had it not been for the peculiar circumstances which last year attended all money transactions, and drove them to the wall, when they endeavoured to obtain the requisite supply elsewhere. For the sum advanced by the Treasury on this account, they had the tangible property of the city of London pledged to them as security; and until the repayment of the principal, interest of between two and three per cent per annum. This item, therefore, did not belong to what was ordinarily called expenditure. The advances to the commissioners of Exchequer bills, and for the employment of the poor out of the Consolidated Fund in Ireland for public works, came under the same rule. But, with all the labour and ingenuity for which the hon. member for Abingdon was so eminently distinguished, he defied him to anticipate, at the beginning of the year, what the amount of those advances would be. Here was the hardship of his case. The hon. gentleman That was perfectly true; but how did it happen? All that he could possibly do at the commencement of a session was, to state to the House the sum which he thought it would be expedient to vote in the supply. It was, however, utterly impossible that all the money voted in the supply for the year should be drawn in that year; for a great part of that supply was applicable to services in distant parts of the world, and could not be comprehended in any limited period. A great part of the 8,297,000. was on account of grants of antecedent years. It also happened, that, in 1826, the services were paid more rapidly than was usual. At the close of the year, a state of political circumstances arose, which rendered it necessary to draw out money for the services of the year more rapidly than ordinary. Had it not been for the armament which had occurred the balance-sheet on the table would have presented a very different appearance. It was also clear that, in exact proportion as the payments in 1826 for the army had been rapid, the grants remaining to be disposed of had decreased. It was the same with the Navy and the Ordnance. As to the Miscellaneous estimates, they were made up partly of the grants of former years, which became payable in the year, and partly of grants within the year. The difference between the estimate and the sums actually paid amounted only to about 100,0007.: and, although he did not pretend to assume any great credit on that account, he did not think that it was any reproach to his foresight, that he had not been nearer in his anticipation. The hon. member had then fallen upon all his (the chancellor of the Exchequer's) errors, with respect to the estimated receipt of T2 land, and of the Consolidated fund in Ireland, to the amount of 273,000l. Never. He had always excluded items of that description from his statement; it being utterly impossible to anticipate either the issues or the returns. It would indeed be a miserable trick, of which he was sure the hon. gentleman could not suppose that he would be guilty, had he taken credit for repayments without noticing issues; but the fact was, that the hon. gentleman was wrong in imagining that he had adverted to the subject at all, in his anticipation of the receipt and expenditure of the year. He was not aware that he could at present go more particularly or minutely into these points. It would certainly have been more satisfactory to himself, and, he presumed, to the House, if he had been permitted to delay saying any the year. It was perfectly true that he | his error. He had made another mistake. had been too sanguine. It would be Before the final termination of the lottery absurd to deny it. He had expected, that he had been led into the mistake of conthe revenue would be more productive ceiving, that a certain portion of profit than it had turned out to be. But the remained to be received by the public hon. member had not quite fairly argued this from that source. He had not found out subject. He certainly had anticipated that, his error until it was too late to rectify it; in the year 1826, the Customs and Excise and had, therefore, anticipated a receipt together would yield 36,846,000l. The of 180,000l. which never accrued. These actual produce had been 36,450,000l.; were the circumstances which reduced the being about 400,000l. less than he had anti- produce of the Miscellaneous estimates cipated. Now really such a difference on below his estimate. But then the hon. a revenue of nearly thirty-seven millions, member for Abingdon said, that he had between the estimate and the produce, taken credit for repayments made to the that estimate framed too under circum-commissioners of Exchequer-bills in Engstances of considerable difficulty, and which baffled all attempts at rigid calculation, was, comparatively speaking, so small, that, upon his word, if he did not know that a prophet had no honour in his own country, he should be tempted to claim credit for his accuracy, instead of admitting the justice of the hon. member's reproach, and allowing that his want of foresight ought to withdraw from him the confidence of the country. On the article of Stamps he certainly had been decidedly wrong. He estimated their produce at 7,400,000l.; but he got only 6,702,000l. The fact was, that he had been too sanguine. It was, perhaps, the error of his character. However that might be, he most willingly allowed that he had been widely wrong in this estimate. But he could by no means admit the justice of the hon. member's remark, that with re-thing on these subjects, until he could spect to the Miscellaneous estimates he have put the House in possession of all he had not dealt quite fairly. Undoubtedly had to suggest with respect to the finances those estimates had not produced the of the country, instead of being hurried amount which he had supposed they would into a premature and partial exposition, produce. He had estimated them at hardly intelligible to his own mind, and 1,350,000.; they had produced only be- which, he was therefore persuaded, could tween 900,000l. and 1,000,000l. One of not be very intelligible to others. That, the items of these Miscellaneous estimates however, was not his fault. When a fit was the return which he expected from opportunity should occur for a full disIreland of the old silver coin which had cussion of the subject, he should be ready been called in. In the antecedent year to prove to the House, and he thought the sum of 500,0007. had been voted for a satisfactorily, that although on the face of new silver coinage in Ireland; and he had the balance-paper there appeared to be a anticipated, that the return of the old surplus of only one million, there was no silver coin to the Treasury would amount reason whatever to infer from that circumto 400,000l.; whereas it had amounted stance, that we were incapable of making only to 206,3651. More, however, was every effort that might be required for the receivable, and no doubt would be received maintenance of our honour, and for the in the present year; the delay in its pay-support of the various establishments ment having been occasioned by no im- which were necessary for the good of the mediate demand having been made for it. country. From this source arose a deficiency of nearly 200,000l.; which was undoubtedly Mr. Hume admitted, that the right__n. gentleman had satisfactorily explainedh e 553 Expenditure and Income of the Country. deficiency in the produce of the Miscellaneous estimates, and hoped he would have the power of affording the further explanation of which he had spoken. He feared, however, that, as the only documents on the subject were the accounts of the receipt and expenditure, and as those documents were incapable of alteration, the right hon. gentleman would find his task one of considerable difficulty. To mix up the consideration of the Miscellaneous estimates with the other topics, tended to create confusion. He did not mean to throw any imputation on the right hon. gentleman, but merely to say, that in his estimates of last year he was too sanguine. If, however, the expense of the year was founded on this erroneous estimate, it was too much to say that they were warranted in continuing the expense, after the exaggerated estimate of the income had been discovered. He would confine his remarks to the ordinary revenue and expenditure; to the amount received from taxation; and to the amount paid for the maintenance of our establishments, and for the interest of the debt. If the House would do him the favour to attend to him, he would endeavour to explain the matter. In 1825, the revenue was 52,000,000l.; in 1826, it was 49,600,000l.; being a diminution of 2,400,000l. Out of this revenue the act of parliament required that a nett surplus of 5,000,000l. should be applied as a sinking fund. Instead, however, of a surplus of 5,000,000l., the right hon. gentleman himself admitted, that he had only a surplus of 1,000,0007. It followed, then, that there was a deficiency in the last year of 4,000,0007. The expenditure of the country had increased as follows:-In 1825, the army, navy, ordnance, &c. had been 17,212,0007.; in 1826, they had been 19,344,000Z.; being an increase of 2,132,000l. Combining the deficiency of revenue with the increase of expenditure, it was easy to understand why the surplus should not exceed a million. The question for the House to consider was, whether we were in a condition to go on in the same manner next year? The right hon. gentleman said, that we were; he (Mr. Hume) said that we Why? With that surplus million we had pretended to reduce five millions and a half of debt. But how? In the old way. By borrowing four millions and a half, and adding to that sum, the million of surplus, we made it appear were not. on paper, that five millions and a half of debt had been redeemed. He must protest against such a delusion. He would show that the surplus million was already absorbed by the expenses which had been incurred; leaving out of the question all considerations of loans or sinking funds. He would take it for granted, that the revenue of the present would not exceed the revenue of the last year. In the first place, there were life annuities to the amount of 580,000l. a year, which, strange to say, were never brought to the public account, but were always paid out of the sinking fund. Then there was the sum of 200,000l. increase in the interest of the outstanding debt; occasioned by raising, on the first of January, the rate of interest on Exchequer-bills from three half-pence to two-pence; and lastly, there was nearly the sum of 400,000l. to supply the deficiency arising from reducing the five per cents. These three sums would make it The consequence necessary to pay 1,160,000l. more in 1827, year. than in the last there year, was, that, supposing the surplus of 1827 to be equal to that of the last would, nevertheless, be a bona fide deficiency of above 140,000l. We had incurred a debt of 3,000,000l. in the management of the dead weight of only 13,000,000l.-So much for attempting to bolster up the sinking fund. We had been proceeding in this unnecessary accu-, mulation of debt from the period of sir Robert Walpole to the present time. If, under the name of a sinking fund, ministers had at their disposal a surplus revenue of 5,000,000l., they would sooner or later find means of expending that surplus, and applying it to other purposes than the reduction of debt. Ministers had yet to receive the remaining part of this thirteen million of dead weight from the Bank. The last payment would be in April, 1828. Unless government pursued a different course with this fund, they must be adding to the debt, by funding at least, five millions a year. If they went on as the act of parliament required, they would incur, by the end of the year, a debt of 3,600,000l. This would be independent of the amount of the expedition to Portugal. These debts were incurred in what the ministers of the Crown called supporting the honour of the country. Thus they would run on until they got into a state of bankruptcy, which would eventually be the end of than go abroad, seeking glory at the cannon's mouth [a laugh]. It was well for persons to look at such matters at a dis He their "honour." It was impossible for [his efforts to uphold the situation of the the chancellor of the Exchequer to make country with reference to foreign nations. one million pay five millions, or to an- What was the proud situation of this counswer the public creditor, if he went on as try, of which the right hon. gentleman he had hitherto done. France, Holland, boasted? It was merely the situation of America, and other countries were paying an arbitrator, to settle all affairs except off their debts, or reducing taxation, ei- her own. The affairs of Portugal did not ther by husbanding their resources, or require so much of our management. It keeping their expenditure within their in-behoved ministers to look at home rather come. England, on the contrary, if parliament persisted in voting estimates upon the scale of the present year, must add to her already dreadfully heavy load of taxa-tance, and then fancy that they held a tion. He would put it to the House, commanding station. But what a picture whether they should not postpone voting it was that they had to turn over. such immensely large estimates, until they had often heard it remarked, that men did had a more complete view of the state of not like to look into their affairs when the finances. All he asked was, to let the they were encumbered; and he believed that House vote a sum upon account. If they those gentlemen who boasted of the high and did not pursue this course, they might commanding station of the country, were find themselves in the situation in which very averse to examine its real condition. they were four years ago; when, after He apprehended that they looked upon voting the estimates, the state of the its internal situation in no very favourable country obliged them to withhold the sup- point of view. Instead of vapouring and plies, and the chancellor of the Exche-throwing away money upon other counquer complained, saying, "this is very un- tries, they ought to see if they could keep fair; you have voted the estimates, and out of debt; and if they could relieve, not now you refuse to vote me money to pay only the poorer classes, but every interest, them." The House of Commons were then for all interests were pressing upon the obliged to call upon ministers to reduce House for relief. He should be happy to those very estimates which themselves had vote upon account what would allow the previously sanctioned. Let parliament have Ordnance department to go on for three a full statement of what the chancellor of months. That period would be amply the Exchequer had determined the expen- sufficient for ministers to put the House diture to be. Let the House be supplied in a state of information upon the finances with an account of what were the expenses of the country, upon the estimated reveincurred in Portugal, and how they were nue, and the total of the intended expenses. to be provided for, and then they would With this view he had prepared a resoluknow how to proceed. If there should tion, but whether the House would agree prove any deficiency in the Ways and with him or not, he was unable to tell. Means, it would then be in the power of In France, Holland, and other countries, the House to consider whether they could the ministers of the Crown laid before the not lessen the expenditure, instead of House what they intended to call for; going on to the end of the year, and find- and, if this was not approved of by the ing themselves several millions in debt. House, the estimate was sent back to the The various departments of government ministers, who again laid them before the had already made up their estimates, and legislature in an amended state. He it would not therefore be difficult for the asked the House of Commons to do no chancellor of the Exchequer to lay a gene-more, and he was convinced he was acting ral statement of them before the House. a very reasonable part. He would move, The delay of only another month would by way of amendment, "That this House afford the House the opportunity of ascer- does not consider it expedient to vote the taining the real condition of the country. Ordnance or any other Estimates until the He would confess that he felt unplea- Ministers of the Crown shall lay before santly at the manner in which the chan- the House an Estimate of the total excellor of the Exchequer talked of sup-pected Expenditure of the country for the porting the dignity and honour of the current year, as well as the Ways and Crown, and at the confidence with which Means by which it is proposed to meet he spoke of the House supporting him in that Expenditure." 557 Expenditure and Income of the Country. Mr. Baring said, that if in ordinary times there had been such a defalcation in the revenue as appeared during the present year, he should have undoubtedly been of opinion, that it would be necessary for the House either to agree to the amendment of the hon. member for Aberdeen, or else to go into the committee and vote the estimates with the strictest investigation into them item by item. Judging from the general conduct of the House, he deemed himself justified in saying, that it was too inattentive to the condition of No state that had the national finances. any pretensions to freedom displayed such inattention as we did to the comparative amount of our expenditure and our means. The French minister was obliged to make a minute statement of the resources of his nation before he ventured to detail to the Chambers his plan for raising the supplies of the year; and the minister of the king of the Netherlands had absolutely had his budget thrown back upon his hands, because he had not accompanied it with a sufficient explanation of the national finances. As a general principle, he would say, that it was the duty of the House not to repose a blind confidence in ministers, but to look narrowly into the estimates which they presented to it. He recollected that in 1816, the House, after voting the estimates, found that they were greater than the situation of the country justified. It addressed the Crown in consequence, and said that the estimates were not satisfactory. Amended estimates were accordingly returned to it, in which considerable reductions were made, and those estimates were subsequently approved. Now, if the estimates of the present year had been presented to the House in circumstances similar to those of 1816, he should have said that the House would not perform its duty without adopting a similar course to that which it then pursued. Considering, however, the political demonstration which the government had recently felt itself called upon to make in Portugal, and the support which the House had given to the government on being informed of it, he was afraid that any hesitation in voting the supplies would be productive of bad effect, not only in a financial, but also in a political point of view; and he should therefore prefer going into the estimates at present, to postponing the discussion of them till the period proposed by the hon. member for Aberdeen. FEB. 16, 1827. 558 The unsettled situation of all the leading interests of the country-of the commercial, the manufacturing, and the shipping interests-placed the House in a very awkward situation as to any investigation into the state of the revenue. Notwithstanding the melancholy views which had that evening been taken of the state of the revenue, he thought the return upon the whole to be satisfactory. Considering the extent of distress which had pervaded all classes of society last year, to a degree that was quite unprecedented, it was surprising that upon a revenue of 57,000,0007. there had only been a defalcation of 1,000,000l. He confessed he had expected that the defalcation would have been much larger, and he was glad to find that it did not exceed the amount which he had stated. There was no occasion for the right hon. gentleman opposite to justify himself on account of the degree in which the revenue actually collected had fallen short of the sum which he had anticipated that it would produce. The very fact of his estimate having exceeded by so small a sum the amount of revenue actually collected during the distressed condition of the country, was a proof that it would have fallen within the mark had the country been in its ordinary situation. It would be a juggle, an outrage upon common sense, for any man to come down to that House and pretend to predict with the skill of a conjuror, the amount of any future year's income: and it would be unbecoming the high character of the right hon. gentleman to pretend to any such powers of prescience. He must, however, remark, that the estimate of expenditure for the last year, presented by the right hon. gentleman, was not so ably constructed as his estimate of the revenue to meet it. There was a surplus of two or three millions of expenditure over the estimates, which he had not yet seen sufficiently accounted for. The expense of fitting out the armament for Portugal could not have come into the present accounts: if it had, he was glad of it, and surprised to find that it was not larger in amount. He then proceeded to observe, that if the expenses of the different departments so far exceeded the sums at which they were estimated, it was a proof that they were out of the controlling hands of the government; and that the government was, as it had once been described, a government |