Billeder på siden


worthy of consideration, whether or not send away beggars from England, to make the government would, by a sale of those beggars of those who remained behind; lands, in the course of ten or twelve years, for what other result could follow from when the lands on all sides of it should sending 20,000,0001. out of the country, have been brought into a good state of which, if left in, would be expended in cultivation, and when those lands allotted some way or other among the working to the government would acquire a value, classes ? Employment must always be in which they never would have acquired, if proportion to capital, and when so much the surrounding lands were not in a state floating capital was withdrawn from circuof cultivation—be repaid the capital ad-lation, a proportionate quantity of emvanced to the emigrants, for the purpose ployment must be withdrawn from the laof cultivating their grants. He mentioned bouring part of the community. From all this merely to show, that if the plan of re- the information which he had been able to payment by the emigrants was encumbered obtain, he was convinced that this project with difficulties, that the government might would, both immediately and ultimately, not necessarily be induced to give up the be a losing concern to the country. It general policy of the measure, but that had been said, however, that it would other plans might be devised, which would lead to increased prosperity. Now, it hold out, not an immediate, but a distant 20,000,0001. were to be divided in this and certain prospect of repayment. It country among the persons whom it was appeared to him, that the discussion upon destined to take from it, it would produce to the question ought to be reserved until after them an annuity of 15l. a year, and would all those difficulties had been inquired keep them in comparative comfort. Beinto, and minutely examined by a commit- sides, the evils of Ireland could not be tee, and some precise plan had been laid cured by emigration. The system which before the House. He had been induced prevailed in that country was bad, and reto take that opportunity of stating these quired a stronger cure than that of emislight qualifications with which he gave gration. If the House wished emigration his assent to the plan of liis hon. friend, to be productive of any good effect, they the colonial Secretary, and he trusted, must repeal. the absurd restrictions which that it would not be thought that the they had placed upon it. At present, no stating of those qualifications and difficul- emigrants could go direct to the United ties proceeded from the slightest want of States. They must proceed thither by interest on his part in the proceeding; way of Canada, a regulation which imwhich, with certain reservations, had his posed an additional expense of 102. upon most cordial concurrence.

every person emigrating. The restricMr. Hume contended, that to employ tions, however, were as useless in prac20,000,0001. in carrying to a foreign coun- tice, as they were absurd in theory; for it try one out of every eighteen members of appeared by returns published by the our population, was a wasteful employ- Emigration Society at Quebec, that out of ment of the public capital, inasmuch as one hundred and nine thousand emigrants the void occasioned by such a measure who had arrived within the few last years would be made up in three years. In in Canada from Great Britain and Ireland, proof of his position, the hon. member only ten thousand were then resident in that read an extract from the evidence attached country, and that the remainder of them had to the Report on Emigration; from which proceeded to the United States. Whilst it appeared, that the void which had been he made these objections to the plans now occasioned in the population of the village proposed, he thought it right to state, of Marsden, in Kent, by the emigration of that he was anxious to promote emigrafifty-two of its inhabitants (which was one tion upon sound principles, and to add, in eight), had been immediately made up that the sentiments expressed by the hon. by the arrival of fresh labourers from other mover and seconder of the amendment were places.

He likewise argued, from the such as the House ought to follow ; for if evidence of colonel Cockburn, that at the the committee was to do nothing more end of seven years from their first settle- than bring in some measure, which was ment, the emigrants would not be able to then to be postponed till next session, it repay to government, or their parishes, would, by keeping the parties in suspense, the expenses of their emigration. The aggravate the evil which it was intended practical result of this project might be, to to remove. He would not object to the

[ocr errors]

committee, though he was fully convinced He implored the House not to be put that none of the plans which had been down by any cant about sound principles ; that night alluded to would be found bene- nor to confide exclusively in the views ficial. Useful information, however, might either of speculative or of practical men. be elicited by a committee; and to the The wisest plan would be to look atteneliciting of such information he had always tively at both, and to decide as circumbeen, and always should be, friendly. stances warranted. He was happy to say

Mr. Wilmot Horton, in reply, said, that that speculative men were not hostile to the honourable members who had come down views which he entertained on this subject, to that House, and attacked his plans, and that several practical men warmly suphad evidently not read the printed report, ported them. But let that be as it might, upon which his measures were founded. he was ready to abide by public opinion Before he answered the attack made upon as to the correctness of his principles on him by the hon. member for Bristol, he this subject, which he had long considered begged leave to notice an observation with deep anxiety. He must complain of made by the hon. member who had just the hon. member for Bristol, for having sat down, who had contrasted his opinion drawn, as an inference from the fact of with those of his right hon. friend, the some of the settlers in Canada having had Secretary of State for the Home Depart- the ague in 1825, that the plan of emiment. He did not see that there was any gration acted upon in 1823 had failed. difference of opinion between him and his If the hon. member would look to page 290 right hon. friend. He might, individu- of the printed report, he would find there ally, entertain opinions in detail, different was a most elaborate and minute statement from those of his right hon. friend, but, relative to the settlers who went to Canada. upon the general policy of emigration, Their numbers, their names, the deaths, he agreed with his right hon. friend, that it the produce of the land, the number of would be highly advantageous to the coun- acres brought into cultivation, were stated; try and to the emigrants, and that the and opposite to the name of each settler, best means of securing the greatest bene- was a minute statement of his stock, and fit, advantage, and comfort, for them, the number of acres cultivated by him. could be ascertained only in a committee. He pledged himself to prove before the He begged to remind the hon. members committee, that the value of the property who were opposed to his plans, that there belonging to the settlers located by Mr. was a tribunal without, as well as within, Robinson, amounted to 7,0001. Mr. the walls of that House, and by that tri- Robinson, in 1823, located one hundred bunal, the tribunal of public opinion, he and eighty-two families, one hundred and had no objection to have his plans, and twenty of whom were living on their grants his arguments in support of them, as well in 1825, and only one had returned to as the arguments of the hon. member, Ireland. With respect to the opinion of judged. As the hon. member for Aber- colonel Cockburn, he could lay before the deen had spoken of “sound principles," committee the colonel's recantation of that. he would state to the House something opinion. In that recantation he stated, which had passed between him and that that, at the time he expressed the opinion, hon. member. That hon. member had he was satisfied of its truth, relying, as he told him, upon a former occasion, that his did, upon the information which he had plans were contrary to “sound princi- received from others respecting those setples ;” and, in support of his statement, tlers ; but that, when it was proved to he had quoted the authority of a well- him, by documents, that those statements known writer on Political Economy, Mr. were unfounded, he had no hesitation in M‘Culloch. Now, would the hon. mem- withdrawing his previous opinion. He ber give him credit in future for sound denied that colonel Cockburn had ever principles, when he told him that he had said, that the emigrants could not prodrawn up thirty questions upon this sub- cure a market for their commodities if ject with care and attention ; that they emigration were continued. Every suchad been submitted one by one to Mr. ceeding lot of emigrants would create a M‘Culloch, and that Mr. M‘Culloch had market for the produce of the former emianswered them in a manner perfectly ac- grants, provided emigration were continued cordant to the view which he (Mr. Horon a regular plan. He begged leave to ton) had taken of them in that House ? ) call the attention of the hon, member for

Bristol to what was stated in the Appen- , formerly introduced, relative to appeals dix respecting desultory emigration with on private bills, would be incompletė, if out capital. Was that hon. member the House did not sanction an additional aware of the deprivations endured by such resolution, subjecting the party appealemigrants? In the Report of the Quebec ing to the payment of all costs and exEmigrant Association, it was stated, that penses, in case the committee of appeal those emigrants were employed in break- declared the petition to be frivolous and ing stones upon the road, as the associa- vexatious. It was necessary that the tion had resolved not to give any relief in House should do this with as little delay the shape of money to able-bodied men. as possible, because he knew that one The complaint of those emigrants was the report at least was about to be presented, same as that which they had expressed at relative to which it was probable there home; namely, want of employment. would be an appeal. He had, some time Such was the situation of settlers without since, proposed two measures for the capital; and such would be the situation purpose of carrying his object into effect. of those men whom the hon. member pro- One was, to compel the petitioner to enter posed to set down in Canada, by the into recognizances to defray such costs cheapest mode of conveyance from Ireland. as might have been incurred before the How, he asked, was it possible for men committee, in case the appeal should be thus thrown down, without capital, to considered frivolous and vexatious. Some prosper in a new country? He could as- gentlemen, however, especially those of sure the House, that the opinion in North the learned profession, had objected to America, respecting such emigration, was this, on the ground, that there existed no not such as had been stated by the hon. precedent, where one branch of the legismember for Bristol. The opinion enter- lature assumed the power of taking money tained by all classes in North America, from individuals. In all cases of that from lord Dalhousie down to the humblest nature, it was observed, it must be the individual, was, that “if we adopted emi-concurrent act of the three estates. He gration without capital, and the emigrants had next proposed, that the party or parties were to depend upon chance for employ- appealing should deposit a certain sum of ment, our plans of emigration would fail; money to meet the expenses incurred if and that the prosperity of the emigrants the appeal should be considered frivolous depended upon capital.” The questions and vexatious. Against that, however, it to be considered by the committee would was objected, that where the parties were be, whether repayment of the expense in- poor, the call for a deposit of money would curred by government, in making an ad- effectually prevent the appeal, let the vance of capital to the emigrants, was grounds of it be ever so just. He had, practicable, or whether the emigrants therefore, in the interval since the former should be sent out wholly unprovided with resolutions were carried, endeavoured to capital. When he looked to the published collect the opinions of the gentlemen evidence, he looked with confidence to (especially of the legal profession) who had the decision of the committee in favour of objected to these two propositions; and his opinions. He, for one, was glad that he had now their concurrence in the prothe evidence before the committee, and priety of the resolution which he was the plans of government, were published, about to lay before the House. His probecause the publication would induce the position was, that one or more of the public to turn their attention to the sub- parties appealing should enter into a penal ject; and, by this means, suggestions bond, for a certain sum, covenanting to would be made, which would enable par- defray such costs and charges as might be liament to come to a sound and practi- incurred by the other side, in case the cal conclusion.

committee of appeal reported the petition The Amendment was negatived without to be frivolous and vexatious. The hon. a division. After which the original gentleman then moved, motion was agreed to, and a Committee ceeding shall be had on any petition so appointed.

referred to a Select Committee, unless

the petitioner, or one of the petitioners, COMMITTEES OF APPEALS ON PRIVATE | in case here be more than one, shall, Bills.] Mr. Littleton said, that the within two days after presenting such machinery of the resolutions which he had petition, or within such further time as VOL. XVI,


“ That no proshall be limited by the House, enter into frequently operated as reasons for not a bond or obligation to the agent or applying for bills, or for not coming to the agents, or some person named for that House to renew most useful acts respecting purpose by the agent or agents of the roads, &c. The parties were deterred by opposite party or parties, according to the expenses; they being 5001. or 6001. a form to be approved of by the Chief for each bill. There was no necessity for Clerk, or one of the Clerks Assistants of the enormous expense to which parties this House, in the penal sum of 5001. were now exposed. On account of the and with two sufficient sureties, to be ap- importance of the present proposition, and proved of by one of the said Clerks in the that it might be considered before a fuller penal sum of 2501. each, conditional, to House, he would move, " That the Debate be void, in case the said Petitioner, or be adjourned to Monday." Petitioners shall duly pay all costs, charges Mr. Alderman Waithman observed, that and expenses of the party or parties who the expenses incidental to getting private shall appear before the House in opposition bills through the House were enormous ; to such petition (such costs, charges, and and, instead of increasing them, some expenses to be found and assessed by one means ought to be devised for reducing of the Clerks of this House, for the time them. He was of opinion that the debate being) in case the said Select Committee ought to be adjourned. shall report to the House that the said Mr. Littleton said, that the House Petition appeared to them to be frivolous could not be considered to be taken by and vexatious.”

surprise, as the measure had already been Mr. G. Bankes was anxious that the discussed twice. He understood also, question, which was of considerable im- that it had been agreed to in its present portance, should be postponed to another shape, by those gentlemen who, on the night, in order that it might be properly former occasions, objected to its adoption, discussed. In his opinion, the objections He was anxious that the measure should which were raised against the resolution be speedily disposed of, as he understood which called on parties to enter into re- there were several reports ready to be cognizances, applied with equal strength brought up, and that in one of them an to the present proposition. If a man was appeal was to occur. As the resolution poor, he could not enter honestly into a did not possibly impose any grievance, but bond for 5001., since he knew that if the merely specified the mode in which a favour committee voted his petition frivolous and was to be granted, he was determined to vexatious, he could not meet it: and thus take the sense of the House on the questhe right of appeal was virtually denied to tion. him. Besides, how could they expect a Mr. Batley agreed with the hon. mempoor man to procure two sureties in 2501. ber for Corfe Castle in thinking the each ? The resolution gave a great ad- measure impolitic. It might also have vantage to the rich man, while it precluded the additional inconvenience of bringing the poor man from seeking redress. In the privileges of the House in contact fact, he thought it was very unjust to with a court of law. impose on individuals the necessity of Mr. S. Bourne thought that all scruples entering into such a bond. He did not on legal points might be silenced, when it wish that the expenses attending the was recollected, that the resolution was private business of the House should be drawn up by the Attorney-general. Unincreased. On the contrary, he hoped less this resolution was carried, the other they might be lessened; and if no other measure of the hon. member would be member made the attempt, he would here- incomplete. after bring before the House some pro- The House divided : For the Resoluposition with the view of effecting a dimi- tion 32. For the Adjournment 10. nution of the expenses attendant on private bills. He was convinced that such ex

HOUSE OF LORDS. penses frequently operated as impediments to improvements in the country. To

Fridy, February 16, effect such diminution of the expenses

GRANT TO THE DUKE AND DUCHESS would not affect the officers of the House, or Clarence.] On the order of the as they were not paid by fees; those fees day for taking his Majesty's Message going to a treasury fund. The expenses ! into consideration,

[ocr errors]

The Earl of Liverpool said, he did not elements of that consideration. In the feel it necessary to trespass on their lord- case of his late royal highness the duke of ships with many observations in reference York, that principle was acted upon, even to the Address which he was about to before he came to be so near the throne propose; for, after the melancholy event as he was at the time of his decease ; for, that had recently taken place, and the during the life of his late majesty, indeed situation in which the illustrious duke during the life of the princess Charlotte stood in consequence of it, he thought of Wales, the allowance he enjoyed from there could be no objection to a reasonable parliament was greater, in consequence of provision being made for him, under such his proximity to the throne, than that

, circumstances. He knew that the measure which was assigned to the younger branmust originate elsewhere; still he wished ches of the royal family. It will, perhaps, that their lordships should be informed be as well for me here to state, what the of the nature of the proposition which income assigned to the duke and duchess was to be brought forward. By the death of York, under these circumstances, of the duke of York, a sum of 3,0001. a- amounted to. In the first place, his late year fell to the duke of Clarence, as well royal bighness derived 26,0001. per annum as to the other sons of his late Majesty. from the consolidated fund. In addition To that sum it was now . proposed to add to this, there was a pension on the Irish 3,0001., a-year more, and 6,0001. as a pension list, of 7,0001. per annum, making further provision for the duchess, making together the sum of 33,0001. The duchess in all 12,0001. a-year. He was quite had, for her own support, an annual insure that no one would say that this was come of 4,0001., which, added to the too much, considering the situation in 33,0001. enjoyed by the duke, made which the illustrious duke now stood as 37,0001.. And it was thought, upon heir presumptive to the Throne. With numerous occasions, when brought under respect to the duchess of Clarence, he the consideration of the House, that could say, from the knowledge he had of taking into view the relation which their the conduct of her royal highness, that it royal highnesses bore to the throne, it was was altogether irreproachable and unex- an allowance not more than sufficient for ceptionable. Those who with himself them to maintain the station in life which had similar opportunities of witnessing her they were called upon to fill. I will now demeanor, would fully bear him out in state to the House, the income of his this assertion. The noble earl concluded royal highness the duke of Clarence. by moving an Address to his Majesty ex- That prince has a charge upon the conpressive of their lordships' concurrence in solidated fund of 26,5001. per annum, his Majesty's Message.

but he is without any allowance whatever The motion was agreed to.

for the duchess. The whole of his royal

highness's allowance is, therefore, only HOUSE OF COMMONS.

26,500l. : this is somewhat more than is

assigned to the other junior branches of Friday, February 16.

the royal family. It was considered but GRANT TO THE DUKE AND DUCHESS right that his royal highness should have OF CLARENCE.) The House having 2,5001. beyond the other junior branches resolved itself into a Committee on the of the royal family, for a reason which King's Message for a Provision for the I shall presently state. Sir, the income Duke and Duchess of Clarence, and the he now enjoys was assigned to him by said Message having been read,

various acts of parliament. The first act The Chancellor of the Exchequer rose, to which I shall allude, was passed at an and addressed the Committee as follows: early period of the late king's reign. It Sir; whenever parliament has been called was to take effect after his death, and asupon on former occasions, to consider signed to all the younger princes a sum of what provision ought to be made for the 60,0001. per annum, which was to be due maintenance of the station and dig- divided between them in equal portions, nity of different members of the royal with benefit of survivorship, until the sum family, the consideration of the degree of enjoyed by the survivors should have proximity which any individual of that reached 15,000l. per annum each. The family might have to the throne, has six younger princes, since that act came always been one of the most important into operation, have enjoyed 10,0001. per

« ForrigeFortsæt »