it. Now, he denied that this assumption | he inveighed against the then existing was correct, and therefore his argument law as a mass of absurdity. But, what went for nothing. The fact was, that was the result? Why, in about ten nine tenths of our machinery was open to months, having become wiser by experience, all Europe, and there remained only one they found it necessary to retrace their tenth for the protection of which we had steps. They did not, it was true, go back to struggle. But even if we had that mo- to the old laws; but they were obliged to nopoly, how could we hope to retain or adopt new ones, to remedy the defects of enforce it? How could we prevent per- the measure which was to have wrought sons from copying the different models of wonders. The right hon. gentleman stated, that machinery which were regularly that he fully agreed in the expression of given in our Encyclopædias and other satisfaction that had fallen from an hon. publications? The fact was, that by this member opposite, as to the conclusive and monopoly we were sacrificing a certain able statement made by the hon. member profit for an uncertain gain. He trusted for Ipswich (colonel Torrens) respecting the that no specific measure would be in- true principle on which our commercial troduced upon this subject, but that the policy should rest. regulation would be left as it was at present with the Board of Trade. He could not help expressing his surprise, that the people of Manchester, who had been the first to petition for a free trade in corn, should have lent themselves to the getting up of such a memorial as that alluded to by the hon. member for Staffordshire (Mr. Littleton), relative to the exportation of machinery.

Mr. Secretary Peel said, that when the hon. member for Aberdeen, in the last parliament, had expressed his determination to introduce a measure for the repeal of the present law, he had urged him to postpone it, because he thought it was due to the feelings of the manufacturers not to make so great an alteration at that particular time; and, in his opinion, the present was as little suited for such an experiment. They had been told that it was quite absurd to continue this law, and to prohibit the exportation of machinery, because drawings of the different machines were to be found in the Scotch Encyclopædia. But, since the year 1821, when that Encyclopædia was published, many improvements had been made in those machines. [Mr. Warburton, "Then they are secrets." Then, if they were secrets, why should not the country profit by them as much as possible? This was a question which ought not to be hastily taken up. They had already had some experience of the ill effects attending a precipitate decision on long-established laws. When the hon. gentleman brought forward the repeal of the combination laws, he laid down some broad general principles, which sounded very well. He called on the House to put the master and the journeyman upon the same footing; and

Mr. Bright observed, that the effect of particular systems of law was frequently over-rated, their real operation being ascertained correctly, as soon as they were repealed. Such had been the case with the combination laws; and, as soon as the statutes forbidding the exportation of machinery should be abrogated, it might be found that they had materially contributed to the protection of the manufacturer. He trusted that, in the present session, the true principles of political economy would be better understood, and that no sudden change in the existing law would be attempted.

Ordered to lie on the table, and be printed.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Thursday, December 7.

EMIGRATION.] Mr. W. Horton presented petitions from Glasgow and Calton, in favour of Emigration, as a measure necessary for the relief of the distressed manufacturers.

Mr. Hume hoped that ministers would be prepared to introduce some measure on the subject, as it was one in which thousands and tens of thousands were interested.

Mr. Wilmot Horton said, he was on the point of rising to give notice, that on the 15th of February, he would move to renew the committee on emigration, which had sat during the last session. He assured the hon. member, that it would not at all forward his object to force a decision on the subject at the present moment. The individuals who desired to emigrate could not be removed at this season of the year with any advantage to themselves. The

subject of emigration was so extensive in its nature, that the House ought to have the fullest information upon it.

Mr. Abercromby contended, that government ought to come forward with some specific plan for the relief of the thousands of artisans who were now starving in different parts of the country.

Mr. J. Grattan agreed with his learned friend, that some more explicit declaration was wanted from government. He did not entertain any great hopes of advantage from the renewal of the committee which had sat last session. Indeed, the opinion of that committee, as far as it could be collected from their report, was adverse to emigration.

the humblest description, oatmeal and potatoes, and their whole appearance showed that they were reduced to an extremity of want. In fact, there were thousands and tens of thousands of them on the verge of starvation at that moment. He was not going to examine into the causes which had led to this distress; but he believed that one, and perhaps the chief, was placed beyond the reach of parliamentary interposition: he alluded to the improvements which had been recently made in the power-looms. The handweavers could not be converted into power-loom weavers, and they were thus compelled to continue a hopeless struggle with power-loom weavers, at a rate of Mr. W. Horton dissented from the wages which was regularly decreasing. assertion, that the report of the committee Under these circumstances, some special held out no hopes of advantage from remedy ought to be applied by governemigration. He knew not what better ment to the distresses of the country. He evidence could have been collected than thought they were so great as even to that which was collected by the com-justify a grant of public money to relieve mittee, to throw light upon this important subject. He hoped that the next committee would be able to propose some temporary measure, which would in no way interfere with any permanent measure which it might ultimately think proper to adopt.

Sir James Graham said, it was evident, from the correspondence into which ministers had entered with the editor of the Glasgow Free Press," that they were favourably inclined to the system of emigration. He was sorry to find that they were ready to see thousands of their fellow countrymen seeking to be exiled from their native land. The system of emigration was contrary to the spirit of our laws, and opposed to many of our most ancient regulations. He admitted, that it was necessary to do something to relieve the distresses under which so many of our artisans were at present sinking He was sorry to inform the House, that since the petition from Carlisle had been presented, he had received accounts, stating that their distress was increasing daily. He could state to the House, that the hand-weavers did not at present receive more than 5s. a week; for which sum they laboured fourteen hours a day. They were most of them a year's rent in arrear, and were therefore liable not only to have that small portion of their property which remained unpledged, sold to defray the claims upon them, but to be ejected from their tenements. Their diet was of

them.

Mr. Warburton wished to be informed how, under the present system of our Corn-laws, the corn grown in the colonies was to be sent to England to pay the quitrent, which was to re-imburse the government for the expenses it might incur in carrying emigrants to the place of their destination.

Mr. Secretary Peel deprecated the continuance of the present discussion. It was of great importance that hon. gentlemen should keep their minds open to information on this subject, and that they should not pledge themselves to opinions now, which might, by possibility, fetter their judgments hereafter. There were many points connected with the subject of emigration, into which it would be incumbent on the House to examine before it came to any determination. They must consider; first, how far emigration would be available to meet the distress which now prevailed in this country on account of the population being greater than the demand for labour; and secondly, how far the encouragement of emigration would affect the interests of the colonies. It might be impossible to incur the expense of relieving the distress of the country by emigration, and when it was recollected, that an expense of 207. was to be incurred for each emigrant, it could not be expected that the excess of the population could be sensibly relieved by emigration. One might, however, see an advantage in supplying the waste lands

would depart from the rule which they had
laid down three sessions ago.
On a
motion which his hon. relative had then
brought forward respecting the best mode
of relieving the distress which prevailed in
Ireland owing to a redundancy of popu-
lation, it had been laid down by ministers,
that the interference of government, in the
way of an advance of money, was highly
improper. He contended, however, that
where there was a redundant population,
it must be relieved by an advance of
capital, otherwise it could not be got rid of,
A special remedy was required for a special
case of distress; and more inconvenience
would be occasioned to the country, in the
present instance, by adhering to fixed
rules, than would be occasioned to it,
in other instances, by departing from
them.

in the North American provinces with an active population, inasmuch as it would create an increased demand for British manufactures. There would also be, in his opinion, a great advantage to the colonies by encouraging emigration upon a large scale, even though it might not mitigate the distress of the mother country. He was sorry that the hon. baronet had fallen into the fallacy which had been so ably exposed on a former night. He had said, that there were at present many individuals who were willing to place themselves in the same situation with convicts, and who voluntarily asked for that exile which the law attached as a penalty to great crimes. Now this was not the case. The exile into which the petitioners wished to enter was very different from that to which convicts were consigned. In the first place, the exile of Mr. Benett contended, that it would the convict was a punishment, and in-be better to put the waste lands of Engflicted upon him legal infamy. He went land into cultivation, than to send our out stigmatized by a conviction for crime, population abroad to engage in similar and not as a free settler. His labour was employment. The waste lands of Engnot his own; but was appropriated to land, would long since have been cultianother individual who paid him no wages vated, had it not been for the embargo for it. On the other hand, so far was the of tithes and taxation which was laid exile into which the emigrant went from upon them. He thought it extraordinary being considered as a punishment, that that, at a time when we had eleven many individuals who were in possession millions of acres 'ready for cultivation, we of a small capital, and by no means in a should send our population at the expense state of distress, had made application to of 201. a man, to cultivate the woods and the government in the following style: deserts of Canada. :He believed that "Give me a grant of a hundred or two nothing was wanted in Ireland but the hundred acres, and I will transport security of life and property, to rescue myself and family to Canada, because I the waste lands of that country from their feel that I can turn my capital to greater present uncultivated state. If life and effect in that country than I can do here." property were rendered secure in that Individuals who made such applications country, English and Scotch capital would scarcely considered themselves exiles, and soon flow in. He objected to the project certainly ought not to be described as of emigration, and thought that the inindividuals placed in the situation of quiry into the propriety of it, should be convicts. It was the repetition of this postponed till after the discussion of the extravagant argument that had induced Corn-laws. If the prayer of the numerous him to rise upon this occasion, and to in- petitions which the hon. member for treat gentlemen not to pledge themselves Aberdeen had presented should be granted, to any hasty opinions on the subject of the House would have a number not only emigration, until they had read the report of manufacturing but also of agricultural of the committee upon it, and the evidence labourers, praying to be banished from attached to that report. The information their country. He trusted, however, that which colonel Cockburn had given to the both classes of labourers would soon find committee was particularly valuable, from employment in their native country, and the knowledge which he possessed on the would long remain in it, adding to its subject, and well deserved the attention of wealth, and increasing its resources. hon. gentlemen.

Mr. Maberly trusted that ministers would take the advice which had been tendered to them by the hon. baronet, and

Mr. W. Horton said, that if the hon. member would allow him, he would propose him as one of the committee; and he had little doubt, but he would soon be con

vinced, that it was much better that persons should leave this country to cultivate the richest lands in some of our colonies, than remain here to cultivate the worst. Ordered to lie on the table.

or to the complaints which had been made by individuals. It was stated last session, that leave would be given to lord Charles Somerset to come home, for the purpose of meeting the charges that had been made against him, and they were now, he CAPE OF GOOD HOPE-CONDUCT OF thought, in a situation when the House LORD CHARLES SOMERSET.] Mr. Hume ought to ascertain what was meant to be rose for the purpose of calling the atten- done. In presenting a petition on this tion of the House to a subject, into which subject last year, he had inquired whether justice to the complaints of the colony, certain persons, colonel Bird and others, and to the character of the individual would be prevented from returning to the who was accused as the author of those Cape, in order that they might be forthcomplaints, required that it should in- coming to give information which might stitute an immediate inquiry. Many tend to exculpate or criminate the noble members of the House might not, per- lord. The evidence of those persons was haps, understand the course which had most material; but nevertheless they were been adopted with regard to the Cape of sent back. It was quite impossible for Good Hope. In the year 1822, in con- the noble lord to retrieve his character, or sequence of the reports which had reached to return to the colony, unless some proEngland respecting the misgovernment of ceeding were adopted in his case. He that colony, the House had presented an would, therefore, ask the hon. gentleman address to his majesty, requesting him to in what state they now were, or what appoint a commission to inquire into the course ministers meant to adopt with restate of that colony, as far as regarded its spect to the noble lord? It was fit that revenue, its institutions, and the conduct the noble lord himself, and the numerous of its governor. On a motion which he persons sent from the colony, and who had made last session, the instructions sought for redress against the noble lord, sent to the gentlemen who formed the should be made acquainted with the course commission were laid upon the table. He which it was intended to pursue. Therewas not going, on the present occasion, fore, to accelerate the period when this to question in any respect the propriety inquiry should take place, he begged leave of those instructions, though he could not to ask ministers, whether they had made help remarking, that three years and a up their minds as to when that proceeding half had elapsed without the House re- should commence? It was necessary that ceiving any information as to the labour an inquiry should be instituted, and that, of the commissioners, except in one soli- too, speedily, that the noble lord might tary case, into which it appeared that they clear his character from the aspersions had instituted some inquiry. Neither that had been thrown upon it, and the was he going to complain of the conduct charges which had been brought against of the commissioners, though from state- him, as well as to do justice to the inments which had been forwarded, and interests of various individuals in the colony. some degree authenticated, to him, he was inclined to question the propriety of their conduct. He was anxious, that the hon. Secretary opposite would state how the House stood with regard to the inquiry into the conduct of the noble lord who had come home from his government in order to meet it. There were various circumstances which rendered an inquiry into the conduct of the governor of a distant colony a matter of considerable difficulty. There was an imperative necessity for investigation. At present, they had nothing but ex-parte statements before them, and they were really ignorant of the situation of the colony, either with respect to the inquiry which had been going on,

There were, certainly, suspicious circumstances attending the conduct of government in this affair. If he was rightly informed, colonel Bird, instead of having been kept here to give evidence, had been sent back to the colony, and pensions granted to him and certain members of his family; for what reason he could not conceive. If this was the case, suspicion certainly rested on the conduct of those who ought to see impartial justice administered. If the answer given to what he now asked was not satisfactory, he would then proceed to state such information as he had acquired on the subject.

Mr. Wilmot Horton said, that the course taken by the hon. gentleman was so very