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would thereby arise upon the subject daily; and the certainty that it would do so ought to induce ministers to assign a reason for wishing to avoid it. If they expected further information on the subject, the avowal of such expectation would be a fair reason for postponing the discussion of it; but if they did not, they were not consulting the wishes of the country in not proceeding with it immediately. They had heard much of the interest of the manufacturer, and of the agriculturist, but there was one interest of which they had not heard one word of, and that was the interest of the people.

CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES OF THE HOUSE-MR. BROGDEN.] On the order of the day for the House resolving itself into a committee of supply,

calumnies which had been propagated against him [loud cheers]. He was sure that the House would do him justice when an inquiry into the charges against him should be instituted, and that it would, in the mean time, appreciate the motives which induced him to act as he then acted. All that he would say further was, that he was guiltless of all fraud, and that he wished the transaction alluded to by the hon. alderman who had brought it before the House to be fully investigated. At present, he bowed before the storm which had been excited against him; but he was convinced that fair weather would soon return, and that his character would shine with undiminished brightness in spite of the clouds which now obscured it. He would not trespass further on the attention of the House. On former occasions he Mr. Brogden addressed the House. had often received its indulgence: all He said, that he had now had the honour that he now asked for was its justice. In of filling the important and honourable conclusion he challenged the worthy situation of Chairman of the Committees alderman, who had been the first to assail of the House for nearly two whole parlia- his character, to give him a speedy opporments; and he was not conscious of hav-tunity of vindicating it from the charges ing done any act, during that period, which he had brought against it. which was either dishonourable in itself or derogatory from the situation which he filled in that House and in society at large. Within the few last months, however, he had been assailed by public and private calumnies, the most unjustifiable and unfounded. He had rebutted those calumnies as far as was in his power; but they were still circulated to his disadvantage, in consequence of the prejudices which had been excited against him. He was happy, however, in having it in his power to say, that from those who knew him best, he had received, not blame, but thanks; he had met, not with accusation, but applause; whilst, on the other hand, he was sorry to say, that among the public at large his character had been torn from him by anonymous publications of the most scandalous and virulent description. He would venture to affirm, that there was no gentleman on either side of the House, let his politics be what they might, who had investigated the merits of his case, and possessed sufficient knowledge of it to decide on the accusations which had been preferred against him. In such a condition, though he felt himself perfectly guiltless, he could not think of presenting himself as a candidate for the office which he had filled in the two last parliaments, until he had removed the

Mr. Secretary Canning said, he was sure that only one impression could have been generated in the House by the address which the hon. gentleman had delivered— an address which was as creditable to that hon. gentleman's sense of what was due to himself, as it was consonant to the honour of the House, and to the feelings of those whose duty it was to suggest a fit person to fill the chair of the committees. For his own part, he felt that the House, although it might avail itself of the hon. member's determination to withdraw himself at present from the chair, which he had filled with so much credit to himself and advantage to the public businessand he could assure it, that he did not intend to propose the hon. gentleman for its chairman, after what he had just said, he felt, he repeated, that the House, if the hon. gentleman came out of the inquiry which he had challenged, free from moral taint, would be sorry to make any arrangement which would preclude him from again filling that situation. At the same time, he must observe, that if it had been possible-if it had been either respectful to the House, or kind to the individualto press him against his own disclaimer, he should have been reluctant to place the hon. member at present in the chair, because he felt that a thousand opportunities

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during the ordinary business of parliament might arise, in which the vague rumours, which had necessarily reached the ears of every member in the House, might prove impediments to the progress of business, and matter of unpleasantness to the hon. member himself. The course which the hon. member had taken was, in his opinion, manly, wise, and honourable. He was confident that the hon, alderman who had menaced that hon. member--and he did not use the word "menaced" in an offensive sense-perhaps he ought rather to have said, who had given that hon. member notice of his intention to oppose his re-election to the office of chairman of the committees of the House, would feel himself bound to give him as early as possible the opportunity which he sought of exculpating his character. Until that exculpation was complete, he should not deem it respectful to the House to propose to place the hon. member in that situation, which he could not fill to the public advantage, unless he took it free from all moral taint. When the proper opportunity arrived, he should propose as chairman, pro tempore, another hon. gentleman, who had long been a member of the House, who was conversant with its forms and modes of transacting business, and whom he could venture to recommend to their notice as a man of unblemished honour. He would also say this of that gentleman, that though the chairmanship of their committees would be to him, as it must be to every member, an object of honourable ambition, he would be more happy in restoring it to its ancient possessor, free from all reproach, than he would be in holding it himself, whilst that gentleman was labouring, unjustly, under the obloquy of the public.

Mr. Alderman Waithman said, he felt himself in as painful a situation-indeed he might say, in a more painful situation than he had ever before felt in addressing a public assembly. He wished it to be distinctly understood by the House, that he did not come forward as the aceuser of the hon. gentleman. With regard to the transactions which he had brought before it, and which the hon. member had acknowledged to be fraudulent, the hon. member said that he knew nothing. He gave the hon. member credit for that assertion; and he now informed the House, that it was not upon that ground alone that he opposed the re-elec

tion of the hon. member to the situation of chairman of the committees of the House. He had seen so much of the gambling speculations which had recently disgraced and exhausted the country-he knew so much of the manner in which they were concocted and subsequently managed--that he considered it derogatory from the honour of the House to have any man connected with so many of them, as the hon. member was, placed in the respectable situation of chairman of their committees. "Indeed," continued the hon. alderman, "had it been possible for you, Mr. Speaker, to have been connected as the hon. member is with numbers of these joint-stock companies, I should have felt it to be my duty, upon public grounds, to have made the same objection to your re-election to the office which you now so honourably fill, as I ventured to say that I should make to the re-election of the hon. member to the post which he filled in the last parliament." He declared that he should not have said a word bearing upon the hon. member, had not the hon. member been likely to be again called to the situation which he had twice before had the honour of filling; and though he might have felt it his duty to have brought the whole of the joint-stock companies under the notice of parliament, he should not have placed the hon. member's connexion with them under its consideration, unless it had arisen naturally out of the investigation. He knew that many hon. members of that House had lent their names to those speculations; and that by so doing they had inflicted considerable mischief on unsuspecting individuals, though they had had no participation in the fraudulent gains. If such an inquiry as he proposed should take place, he trusted that the House (even though some hon. members of it should be implicated by it, and should be proved to have extracted money out of the pockets of the people, by raising the price of shares by unfair and dishonourable artifices) would do its duty to the country, and would institute a rigid investigation into every circumstance connected with the subject. It might perhaps be asked, why he had put himself so prominently forward on this occasion. He could give many reasons; but one should suffice. It was his fortune to be placed in a high and dignified situation in the year 1824, when this mania was at its height. He was at that time

lord mayor of London, and in consequence, had numberless applications from the various parties in getting up the bubbles, to give his sanction to them. He believed that by putting his name to those applications he might have put thousands of pounds in his pocket. He saw, however, through the views of the parties who applied to him: he saw the mischief which their schemes were certain to produce; and he determined to enter his protest against them. It was, perhaps, that very determination which induced him to watch the progress of those bubbles more narrowly than he otherwise should have done; and the knowledge which he acquired by so watching them, convinced him of the necessity of entering into an investigation of their nature, in case the hon. member, or any other gentleman, connected with equal numbers of them, should aspire to the chairmanship of the committees of that House, in order to enable the House to decide whether they were or were not qualified to perform its functions. He thought it right to observe here, once for all, that he had no sort of personal ill will to the hon. member. He had known him many years: he had had some commercial dealings with him; and from the time when his acquaintance commenced with the hon. member down to the present moment, he had never had any ground to complain of him as a man of honour. He felt it his duty, however, on public grounds, to bring the subject before the House. He had observed these gambling speculations from their commencement to their close: he had witnessed the ruin which they had diffused throughout the country: he had seen men of large property stripped of their all, and their names in the Gazette, owing to their dabbling in them; and he, therefore, thought, that a full examination ought to be instituted into them, not an examination confined to the hon. member, and letting others go free, but one which should embrace all who had become directors of these various companies. If the hon. member should be able to exonerate himself from the charges which had been publicly brought against him, he should be as well pleased as any of the hon. member's friends, and should not offer any opposition to his re-election to that chair, which the hon. member had filled with so much satisfaction.

The House having gone into the committee, Mr. Secretary Canning named sir

Alexander Grant, as chairman of committees. On taking the chair, sir A. Grant addressed the committee. He expressed his concurrence in what had fallen from his right hon. friend, the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, respecting the late chairman, and said that no man would be more rejoiced than himself to see him restored with honour to the situation which he had filled so ably in the two previous parliaments.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Monday, November 27.

POOR LAWS AND EMIGRATION-PETITION OF MR. GOURLAY.] Mr. Hume presented the following petition: «To the Honourable the Commons of the

United Kingdom of Great Britain and
Ireland, in Parliament assembled, the
Petition of Robert Gourlay,

"Humbly showeth, That your petitioner, while travelling through England, in the year 1800, became acquainted with Mr. Arthur Young, secretary to the Board of Agriculture, and was prevailed on by him to visit certain counties, examine and report concerning the condition of the labouring poor; that he then saw that substantial benefits were required to better their condition, and thenceforth made the subject his leading pursuit.

That, in the year 1809, your petitioner removed from Scotland, and rented a farm in Wiltshire, chiefly to ascertain more correctly how the system of the poor-laws could be reformed; and by the year 1817 had nearly satisfied himself, when he had occasion to go abroad to Canada, where his views of such reform were expanded, and became clear, by connecting this with a grand system of emigration.

"That, ever since then, your petitioner has been overwhelmed with misfortune, but never for a moment has he relinquished the great object of his life; and now feels confident that, by simple means, and within twenty years, the poor-laws of England may become a dead letter, and all need for such in Ireland be done away,

"Having had petitions presented to the House of Commons every session of last parliament, on the subjects of Poor-law, Reform, and Emigration, your petitioner now intreats that a select committee may

be appointed to examine these petitions, | and gravely consider these subjects, as by far the most important and pressing business of the present time. And he will ever pray."

Ordered to lie on the table.

CORN LAWS.] Mr. Hume said, he held in his hand a petition from the incorporation of guildry of the city of Brechin, praying for a speedy revision of the Corn-laws. The petition stated, that the admission by ministers of foreign grain, was a measure of prudence and necessity, and the petitioners were unanimous in their expression of that opinion. The concluding part of the petition prayed the House not to adopt half measures with regard the Corn-laws, but so to deal with them as to remove the necessity of ministers having again to claim an indemnity from parliament for effecting a public good. The hon. member then claimed the indulgence of the House while he referred to a report in a daily paper, tending, as he said, to injure him in the eyes of the country. He was well aware of the malice and inveterate rancour pursued towards him by some individuals connected with the public press, who gave publication to a series of calumnies that seriously affected his character. He hoped, however, that the time was not far distant when the imputations under which he laboured would be satisfactorily cleared up, by a full explanation of the circumstances which had given rise to them. The hon. member then said, in alluding to the report in question, that at the close of his observations respecting the corn question, a few nights ago, when he called upon ministers not to postpone the consideration of that important measure, as the peace of the country and the interest of the people at large would not admit of delay, it was asserted that he was coughed down. Had such been the case, it would certainly not have been the first time that the House had signified a wish that he should not say more; but he begged to state, that his meaning on the occasion alluded to was only partly given, and to say that he experienced in that House such treatment was only adding to the calumnies with which he was constantly assailed. He had too much confidence in the indulgence of the House, and the favour of the Speaker, to suppose that such treatment would have been pursued

His

towards him. He stated then, and he now begged leave to repeat the sentence, which at the time he delivered it, did not appear to have been understood. words were, "The broad principle of the Corn-laws involved not only the interest of the people, but the peace of the country," and that, therefore, "the consideration of that question could not with safety be postponed." The latter part of that sentence was not given, and he felt it a duty to himself that his meaning should not be withheld. He regretted that he did not see the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs in his place, as he wished to have asked the right hon. gentleman whether it was the serious intention of government to postpone the question of the Corn-laws. It was notorious that the country was labouring under the greatest distress; and if any serious mischief should arise from an over pressure of calamity, that mischief might fairly be attributed to the postponement of this most vital question. So earnestly did he feel the necessity of an early consideration of the Corn-laws, that if ministers should determine to defer its discussion, he would himself endeavour to induce the House to bring in a bill for the admission of foreign corn. The hon. gentleman proceeded to contend, that the fears of the country gentlemen were considerably over-stated with reference to the corn question; and nothing, he maintained, but a fair and full discussion of the subject could bring its bearings fairly before the public, with a view to the interest of all classes. He hoped the observations which he threw thus loosely together, would not be lost upon the House; and that it would not separate for three months without coming to some decision on a question of such paramount importance as the Corn-laws.

Mr. Hurst said, he could assure the House that the landed interest did not by any means feel the alarm on the subject of the Corn-laws which was attributed to them. He for one had a full confidence in the wisdom of the House, and was satisfied that it would not proceed to legislate on such a subject without maturely weighing the interests of all parties concerned. It was desirable that it should be soon disposed of, as landlords at present were embarrassed upon what terms to let their lands.

Ordered to lie on the table.

HOUSE OF LORDS.

Tuesday, November 28.

abolition. He had another petition to present on the same subject It was from the royal borough of Arbroath. The petitioners highly approved of the measure adopted by ministers for the introduction of foreign grain. And prayed for a revisal of the Corn-laws. He should not then trouble the House with any more petitions, as it appeared that their lordships did not wish to have too many at a time.

The Earl of Lauderdale wished to observe, that he never remembered to have seen the House in the situation in which it appeared to be placed at present. To be sure the noble earl on the woolsack and another noble earl opposite (Westmorland) were in the House; but these were not the usual persons of whom answers to any questions which their lordships might have to put were expected. He should much wish to have the opportunity of seeing another noble earl (Liverpool) in his place, as he had a motion to submit to the House, which he wished to make when the noble earl was present, and he knew that other noble lords were equally desirous of seeing the noble earl in the House.

CORN-LAWS.] Lord King said, he had several petitions to present on the subject of the Corn-laws; and he was very sorry, on that occasion, that he could not follow the recommendation of the noble and learned earl on the woolsack, who had stated it to be more conformable to parliamentary usage to present petitions without any comment. If it were his wish to perpetuate all kinds of abuses, he certainly would follow the prudent example which the noble and learned lord had set; but his object being the direct contrary, he should take the liberty of now making a few observations. The first petition which he should present, was one from the weavers of Carlisle, which he had selected on account of its importance and the sufferings which the petitioners had endured. Those sufferings would be an ample excuse for the language which they had used. It was, indeed, most extraordinary that so large a number of the king's subjects should put their names to a petition containing these words; namely "that thousands, and probably hundreds of thousands, frequently addressed each other, coolly inquiring whether it was not as well to die on the scaffold as of hunger?" Excuse for this was alone to be found in the extremity of their sufferings. He had inquired of gentlemen capable of giving the best information on the subject, and he found that the petitioners had given but too true a picture of their sufferings. Nothing but great suffering could have induced such language, and the petition might, therefore, be regarded as displaying the feelings of the people. The petitioners prayed for the abolition of the Corn-laws; and, as drowning men catch at straws, they prayed besides for an appropriation|ject of the Catholic claims. On the conof that property called church property, to the payment of the national debt, and also for a reform in parliament. The petition was worded with all proper expressions of humility to their lordships.

The Earl of Lauderdale supposed this to be a petition for the repeal of the Cornlaws; but he now found that it was one for the confiscation of church property, and for reform in parliament.

Lord King said, the petition was for the abolition of the Corn-laws, though it suggested other measures in addition to that

The Earl of Westmorland believed it was the usual practice for noble lords to give notice of any motion of importance which they might intend to bring forward. He was confident that, if his noble friend were made acquainted with the wish of any of their lordships to see him in his place, he would not fail to attend.

Earl

CATHOLIC EMANCIPATION.] Spencer presented a petition from the county of Mayo, praying for Catholic Emancipation. The noble earl said, he entirely concurred in the object which the petition had in view. Ever since the Union of the two kingdoms, which was now upwards of a quarter of a century, he had never altered his opinion on the sub

trary, every year tended more and more to add to the conviction he entertained, that neither the interests of strict justice, nor of sound policy could be duly regarded, until those claims were conceded. In fact, without concession there could be no hope of peace or security for the empire, and he felt persuaded that continued resistance to those claims must ultimately be attended by some tremendous disaster. He trusted, however, that when the question should again be brought forward, the result would be different from that which

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