Apostles were competent to declare in the character of witnesses. Not so the witness or testimony of which John speaks, general epist. v. 10. and of which the quotations which you make, as intending the internal experimental efficacy of the truth upon the heart, speak; for this is purely matter of experience. Now, although a man's testimony may be justly credited concerning his feelings, concerning the effects of the word upon his mind; yet it would be an abuse of languagean outrage upon common sense, to call him a witness of the things that passed in his own mind; and still more so, to style him, on this account, a witness of facts, of which he possessed not one item of the certainty of the apostolic evidence, see said Epis. chap. i. 1, 2, 3; but, on the contrary, merely became conscious of the blissful effects of the truth believed through the persuasive evidence of the apostolic testimony above cited.

You justly say, "There is a difference between belief and knowledge," and I believe you: and had you believed yourself in so saying, it would have saved both you and me some trouble;-you the trouble of striving to defend the unfounded and presumptuous pretensions of the "populars," and of laboring to prove me and others destitute of the genuine and blissful effects of the truth believed, by supposing us ignorant of the internal evidence, because we refuse to assume the apostolic character:—and me the trouble of endeavoring to rectify those mistakes.

Now, my dear sir, as you assert with earnestness, that there is a difference between faith and knowledge, let me ask you upon which of these do you say,-do the populars say,-they found their testimony, when they style themselves,-when you style them-living witnesses? If they are such in the true apostolic sense, they can justly claim apostolic certainty;-they can justly say, "That which was from the beginning, which we have seen," &c. and prove the truth of their testimony as the Apostles did. In this way they will ask no favors; they will make no unreasonable demands upon our faith. But every body knows, the populars claim no such certainty; they pretend to no such proofs; they differ nothing from the weakest of their brethren in these respects. They have received and learned all at second hand, upon the testimony of others; and like others, in so far as they have believed the truth, they have felt its influence;and, like others, they can testify what they feel, and this is all they now; and all the rest is faith: and between knowledge and faith you declare there is a difference-and so do I. 1, therefore, boldly affirm, that these, so called, "living witnesses," never witnessed one item of what they preach, in so far as it is contained in the Bible; and this for the plain reason before assigned-"they were born too late." They may, however, preach their own experiences, and these may correspond with what is written; and, in so far be to themselves a matter of fact evidence of the truth believed; but, of which truth they themselves have been first persuaded, upon the evidence of the divine testimony, and is therefore neither designed to produce faith in themselves nor in any body else—not in themselves, for it is the effect of faith-"He that believeth hath the witness in himself." Not in others, for they have it not. This witness or evidence of the truth of the divine testimony, is the property only of him that beliey

eth. John v. 10. Consequently, has nothing to do with the unbeliever, nor he with it. Nor is this given to be preached for the conviction and conversion of sinners; Christ, and him crucified, is to be preachfor these purposes: but this internal evidence is for the comfort and support of the believer.

Again, though the witness or testimony which the bel ever possesses, is to him divine, being the result of his belief in the divine testimony; yet his declaration of it, being that of an uninspired man, cannot produce a divine faith, his testimony being merely human: whereas, every thing that is necessary to be taught or believed for the salvation and perfection of the believing and obedient subject, was published, confirmed, and recorded in the divine oracles 1700 years ago.

By this time, sir, I hope you see the striking difference between having a witness, and being a witness;-of having a thing duly certified to me, and my duly certifying the same thing to others. Let us apply this to the subject under consideration. I, for instance, have been convinced of the truth of the gospel testimony by the divine evidence, as exhibited in the holy scriptures, and consequently have the witness in myself according to John v. 16. the truth of the gospel being thus first duly certified to me. I now feel disposed to become a preacher for the purpose of bringing others to enjoy, with me, the same happy privilege, of which I feel conscious in myself; of the truth of which I also thus feel able to bear a certain testimony.

Shall I now reverse the order of things, substitute my testimony instead of the Apostles', preach my happy feelings instead of the gospel, or attempt to prove the truth of it by its effects upon my heart? and thus attempt to convince others that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, the Saviour, because I feel so happy since I believed in him, and seek to persuade them to believe by promising them like happiness? Now if I preach my own experience, and bear testimony as a living witness, I must confine myself to what I thus feel and know. And even suppose this were sufficient to prove the truth of the gospel, and recommend the Saviour, who knows whether I tell the truth, or be a deceiver? or whether I may not be under the power of delusion myself? Ought I not rather, if I mean to be useful, to lay hold on the divine testimony that convinced myself; namely, that of the holy Apostles and Prophets, with all their arguments and demonstrations, urging these home upon the understandings and hearts of the people, according to the scriptures-being fully persuaded that, if they hear not Moses and the Prophets, Christ and the Apostles, they would not be persuaded though one rose from the dead. These things duly considered, no reasonable person, I presume, could hesitate a moment which of these courses to take; whether to avail himself of the testimony of the primary witnesses as confirmed of God, with all its evidence and authority; or make use of his own experience, the witness in himself, to accomplish his object. Nor is it supposable, these things duly considered, that there can remain any difficulty to discern between having a witness in one's self, and being one's self the witness of the same thing. Twelve men, eye and ear witnesses to any fact, may be able to produce a certainty in one's mind, which certainty, the person thus duly certi

fied, may not be able to produce in the mind of another by his own testimony of the fact, and effect of his conviction, without referring to, and producing the primary and proper witnesses, that convinced himself. Nor, indeed, in the very nature of things can we conceive how it could possibly be otherwise; he being in the mean time no witness at all to the truth of the things which produced the conviction and its effects in himself. I therefore hope my good friend, the "Constant Reader," will, upon due consideration, feel convinced of the justice and propriety of my former conclusions, respecting the pretensions of his "living witnesses." Bethany, January 29, 1830.

THE COLUMBIAN STAR.

T. W.

MR. BRANTLY, of the Star, has, in his usual courtesy, been honoring us with repeated marks of respect during our absence from our editorial labors. Concerning his motives, as it would be indecorous to assert any thing, I shall say nothing. But if actuated by any benevolence for one so great a sinner as he makes me to be, or for those who are misled and corrupted by me, he should reflect whether his acrimonious epithets and sneers are either in the spirit or character of a teacher of Israel, as he assumes to be, calculated more to exhibit the weakness of his understanding or the strength of his passions; and to demonstrate the impregnability of the fortress of truth, and the sandy foundation on which rests the cause he advocates. The Rabbis, unable to refute the Messiah, could bespatter him with epithets and nickname him an obscure Nazarene, a friend of publicans and sinners. The Epicureans and Stoics could call Paul a babbler or retailer of scraps more easily than to enter the lists with him; and Mr. Brantly can, contemptuous like, more easily call me the "Brooke County Reformer," than examine a single position which I have assumed or defended. If he can do any thing more than publish such falsehoods as those alluded to in the subsequent communication, or if he can do any thing more than issue from the pulpit or the press, in the great city of Philadelphia, such supercilious epithets, I call upon him to let us see it. As be seems to think himself the metropolitan supervisor, not only of Pennsylvania, but of Virginia and the South-as he has constituted himself not only the custos morum, the censor of morals, but of the press, and the standard of polite and fashionable orthodoxy, we ask, with all due deference to his superior office, high station, and metropolitan dignity, to give to us obscure Brooke county errorists, some light, some argu ment, or something like logic, else we shall think of the fox in the fable, who called the grapes sour merely because they were inaccessible to him.

It is due to the public and to the venerable brother who wrote the following communication, that we should put it on record as a sam ple of the ease with which whole battalions of assertions and libellous fabrications can be put to flight, and as a caution to Mr. Brantly. I have it in my power to retort severely upon Mr. B. in his own style, if the dignity of the christian public and the cause which I plead would allow it. But it is as unnecessary as it would be incompatible.

Mere assertions and slanderous epithets, though coming from the pulpit occupant of Second street, Philadelphia, will not, in the year 1830, pass for more than they are worth in the market of Cheapside, London—and there, for aught I know, they may be bought at one penny a gross.

Ed. C. B.

FOR THE CHRISTIAN BAPTIST.

“Those that sin, rebuke before all, that others alsø may be afraid." Paul.

Mr. Editor, IN reading your paper of the 8th of October last, we found a sentence in the 59th page, containing about five and a half lines, three capitals, seven commas, one period, and six falsehoods! The sentence is this: "They were such as were previously Arminians, or Sandemanians," (1) "such as never stood firm on the basis of truth,” (2) “such as were ready to take up with the first leader of discontent and faction," (3) "such as always opposed united effort in promoting the spread of the gospel," (4) "and the advancement of education," (5) “and those who through ignorance, become an easy prey to greedy error." (6.)

Now we affirm, that, as far as our personal knowledge extends, all that have fallen in with the views of Mr. Campbell, as published in the "Christian Baptist," were, and are, still members in good and regular standing in churches of the Calvinist c-close-communionorder; belonging to the Black River Baptist Association, and were either ordained Elders, or stated Clerks of their respective congre gations.

And we pledge ourselves, that, whenever we are called upon by the "powers that be," or, by any person of character, that we will prove that each and every of our charges of falsehood as above stated, and our affirmation thereunto annexed, are correct, being founded on fact. And that no less authority shall be exhibited than well attested church records; authentic results of ordaining councils; Association Minutes, duly attested and published; approved and printed Reports of Boards of Missionary and Education Societies; or, oral testimony of unimpeachable witnesses, in subordinate connexion with the Divine Oracle.

Be not surprised, courteous reader, that we, in this wooden northern clime have taken the alarm; for in all that we have heard or read for more than sixty years, never have we before witnessed so much personal scurrility, christian abuse, and contempt of truth, civil and sacred, compressed into so small a compass, as in the above extract. TIM. BREWSTER, A. E. BAKER, GEO. FINN,

Ellisburgh, Jefferson co. New York,

November 5th, 1829.

Extract of a letter to the Editor, dated "Sparta, Ten. December 15, 1829."

"I HAVE just finished reading a late publication, which is called "Campbell and Owen's Dabate." I think a more appropriate name would be "Campbell's Evidences of Christianity." I also think it ought to be disconnected with all Mr. Owen's rant about his "Social System," and neatly bound and published in a volume to itself. I do not express this opinion because I am apprehensive of any danger from an extended circulation of Mr. Owen's views: for indeed his system appears to me (and I think must so appear to every rational mind) to be full of the most palpable absurdities ever at. tempted to be imposed upon the credulity of mankind. It is appa. rent to every reader that he never once took up the question, or debated the point in issue. As the volume at present stands, it resembles, in one respect, some of the best plays of Shakespear. The reader of Shakespear will assuredly find many excellent sentiments-many happy scintillations of thought. But, in order to do this, he must literally wade through a mass of rubbish. I leave you to make the application.

"You haye many friends in this county, and I believe throughout the state of Tennessee. And I say to you, sir, in the undisguised language of sincerity, that for myself I believe you have a duty to perform in this age, and in this country, of immense magnitude; nothing less than that of placing Religion on her native seat of common sense. While reading your evidences of christianity, I was of opinion that you ought to visit every town and village, if practicable, in the United States, and preach to the people. But I am convinced this would be impracticable, and that you may be more extensively useful by pursuing the plan you have adopted.

"I have been thus plain, because I take it for granted, that a man who has a heart-felt interest in the cause of a dying world, is far above the influence of flattery, and that he will, without offence, permit his correspondents to say precisely what they think. I also take it for granted that I am not the first correspondent by many hundreds to whom you are personally unknown.

"If time will permit, I want you to write me. If you have ever written on the knotty point between Calvinists and Arminians, relative to the decree of election, &c. I wish you to refer me to that writing. I presume you view this as a useless controversy-so do I. But I have never been able to find any thing written with ability on the Arminian side of the question, while I view Griffin's Parkstreet Lectures, Week's sermons &c. as works of profound ingenuity at least. If you cannot refer me to any thing written by yourself on this subject, please to name the best treatise, in your judgment, on the Arminian side.

"It may be proper, it will at least be candid to add, that I am not a member of any church; but that I am

"A SINCERE INQUIRER FOR TRUTH."

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