called out a great capital, could arise only from a free distribution of capital and produce. Without such a distribution, no remedy was attainable. It was therefore necessary to remove every species of restrictions which operated against that free distribution; to give every facility to capital to dislodge itself, and to break its large masses into divisions which would feed and support different branches of employment. This was the only mode in which their lordships could hope to provide a remedy for the present distress. Now, the impediments which it was necessary to remove, were, with respect to our Foreign trade, the restrictions under which it laboured; and with respect to our Home trade, the taxes which it had to pay, and each of which had the effect of a legislative restriction on that portion of capital. The pressure of taxation was felt in every branch of manufacture, and hence the necessity of a rigid economy, in order to render the repeal of oppressive taxes practicable. The repeal of taxes belonged to the other House; but still he trusted that questions which related to the means of easing the people of their burdens would never be alien to the minds of their lordships. With respect to Foreign trade, however, the cause was different. It had long been the policy-a most mistaken policy-of this government to impose restrictions on certain branches of Foreign commerce. The effect of these restrictions was, to oppose to Foreign commerce the same sort of impediments and embarrassments, that taxation presented to the Home trade. Their tendency was, to force trade into channels the most unnatural and unprofitable to the country. On this subject, it was not necessary for him to go into detail. Indeed, were he to judge from the sentiments expressed in that House last year, and from what had passed in the committee, he should be sanguine as to the enforcement of the principles on which he thought it was the duty of the country to act. But the difficulty was not so much with regard to the general principle, as to the carrying it into practice. In the present enlightened times, the admission of the principle, that restrictions on trade were injurious was easily obtained; but the moment it was attempted to apply that principle in practice, a formidable resistance was presented by various interests. Science had made such progress within those walls,

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that there was no fear of the exploded doctrine of restriction being maintained in that House. But to any measure which parliament might take to benefit Foreign trade much opposition was to be expected from numerous interests. The merchant, whose trade might be affected by the removal of a restriction, the shipowner, the manufacturer, all would put in their claims, and all too would find them supported. It happened indeed, that every interest had been well supported in parliament except that of the unfortunate consumers, who composed nine-tenths of the population. Every favour, however, which was granted to other interests, was in fact taken from this class; while every arrangement which would be an advantage to it, would be an advantage also to the country. It was the interest of the consumer, therefore, that their lordships, in any regulation which they might make, ought chiefly to have in view, without at the same time neglecting that attention which was due to every other interest. He knew there had been persons who had maintained that the various acts of parliament imposing restrictions had been the foundation of the commercial prosperity of the country, but he, on the contrary, thought, as had been well said in another place, by one whose alliance on this question he was glad to have, that the trade of the country had flourished in spite of them all. He would now move for the appointment of a Select Committee to inquire into the means of extending and securing the Foreign trade of the country.

That

Lord Ellenborough regretted that he should have occasion to differ with the noble marquis; but he could not entertain the same views of the effect likely to be produced on the existing distress by the reduction of taxation. The utmost practicable reductions could not be to such an amount as to be felt as a remedy. There was one mode, however, of affording considerable relief. mode consisted, not in the removal of the taxes, but in their more equal distribution so as to press more lightly upon manufacturers. He might appeal in support of his opinion to the report of the committee of last year on the Timber Trade. In what state had the committee found the duties on that trade? The duties on logs were higher than those on manufactured timber. Those on Norway deals amounted to 60 per cent, and those on Petersburgh

deals to only 30 per cent. The same Norway deals paid an import duty of 1 17. in Ireland and of 201. in England. When such irregularities had been discovered in one branch of trade, there was no doubt but that if the same research were carried into the whole of our commercial system, such a new arrangement and distribution of duties might take place, as would afford efficient relief to manufacturers, without diminishing the receipts of the Treasury.

the articles, because that was subject to variation, but on the quantity, which subject to one qualification, was more certain. The qualification he alluded to was, the defalcation which might be supposed when produceded by smuggling; but that, so far as might be calculated on, would make the consumption greater. He would take his estimate of the consumption from an account of the quantities of several articles charged with duties of Excise in each of the last four years, ending the 5th of Ja

The Earl of Liverpool rose to move that certain accounts be laid before the House, but did not mean to enter into any details on the state of the commerce of the country, and, least of all, on that great fundamental branch of industry agriculture; but he was anxious that the House should, as far as it was possible, know what was the real state of the case with respect to consumption in order, that when they came to discuss the question, they might not be ignorant of the facts connected with it. In the situation hé held, he had thought it his duty to direct his attention to this subject, and to collect together all the information that could be obtained relative to it. The view of the subject which the papers he intended to move for would give, would not vary much from that which he had taken on the first day of the session. (when a difference arose between him and the noble marquis.) He had then stated, that one great cause of the public distress was an excess of production. He admitted that the causes to which the noble marquis had alluded might have their effects, but the noble marquis had also stated, that diminution of consumption was a more probable cause than over-production. He had endeavoured to obtain the best information in his power on the subject. With regard to that article which was the most important criterion of consumption, he meant bread, he had no means of obtaining information capable of leading to a conclusion which could be regarded as any thing like correct. But, from the manner in which the revenue was collected, their lordships had the 'means of accurate information on all the other great articles of consumption. It would be found that with respect to the Excise, the increase was great. He would hot found his calculation on the value of

year, with an average of the three preceding years. The articles were beer, candles, coffee, hides and skins, malt, pepper, salt, soap, British and foreign spirits, tea, tobacco, wine, and sugar. He would move that the returns of these articles be laid on the table; but in the meantime he should state to their lordships what he understood would turn out to be the quantities of the different articles and the general result of the comparison :

Average number of barrels on
Strong Beer.
which the Excise duty was raised
in the three years ending in
Jan. 1818, 1819, and 1820....
For the year ending Jan. 1821.
Making an increase of

5,356,000 5,599,000 243,000

1,447,000

1,519,465

72,465

lbs.

79,810,409 88,350,000

3,539,591

lbs.

7,569,000 7,019,000

55,000

lbs.

46,219,000 44,702,000

1,517,000

Quarters:

23,289,000 •*•.. 24,511,000 1,222,000 Cwt.

Average for internal consumption during the three years ending in Jan. 1820...

1,936,000

were liable to be changed by the operation of favour, caprice, ignorance, or intrigue, and thus no man could place any reliance on them so as to square his conduct by their provisions: but in this country, though the law might not be the wisest, those who were affected by it could calculate upon its continuance, and thus could establish their business and credit in conformity with it. It was not his intention to enter at large into the question of the agricultural distress; but he would say that the circumstances which had forced great tracts of waste land into cultivation, and had thus produced a greater supply than would otherwise have been produced, had very much increased the difficulties of the country. This was an opinion which he had formed after extensive inquiry. He allowed that there were other circumstances which, by their operation, contributed to our agricultural embarrassment. One of these he alluded to with pleasure; namely, the increase of the importation of grain from Ireland, which last year had amounted to 351,871 quarters, being more than the average importation from all quarters of the globe till a recent period. Though this importation hdd been at first productive of difficulties to one part of the empire, it would ultimately promote the prosperity of the whole. A noble baron had given it as his opinion, that considerable relief might be obtained by a change in our modes of taxation, and in the manner of distributing the taxes. Whether the present modes of taxation were the best he would not stop to inquire. It had been his opinion that an increase of the direct taxes would have been beneficial, and therefore he was for preserving for some time the income tax. But it was entirely a different question whether it would now be advisable to alter the existing system. A change in one instance might produce such a general derangement as would more than overbalance the contemplated advantage. The noble earl concluded by moving for the accounts to which he had referred.

Lord Erskine declared that he felt great disappointment at the speech of the noble earl. He did expect to have heard much more on the present occasion, as to the best mode of diminishing, if not of remedying, the severe evils under which the people were labouring. The noble earl, amidst his enumeration of small beer, candles, soap, &c. had said nothing of the VOL. IV.

real cause of the distress under which the country was labouring. That cause was the war of above twenty years duration, which had created a stock of 7 or 800 millions, the proprietors of which, having lent their money to carry on the ruinous contest, were now to be paid by the industry of the people, and more especially of the agricultural classes, without on their part contributing to the general sacrifice. The noble earl had said nothing about the poor-rates, that other source of distress to the landed interest, the evils of which had frequently been aggravated by acts of the legislature. The poor laws, in their original institution, were intended to provide only for those who were so weak or infirm as to be unable to work; but now a man could come and say-" I can work; I have children who can work likewise; but I can find no labour, and I call upon the parish to support me." Thus, those who could find no work swallowed up the means of the industrious. He entreated their lordships to take these things into their consideration, and suggest some means, not of giving cheap bread, but of increasing the wages of labour. It was far better for the poor to be employed: and, when employed, it did not matter much-at least up to a certain point-whether they had cheap bread or not.

Lord King said, that formerly it was the practice of ministers to come down to the House with the annual accounts: now they came down with an annual paradox. One year our distress was owing to a transition from war to peace; and another it was owing to excess of production. Swift, in all his expositions of the follies of mankind, never described any thing so absurd as this last paradox. If there had been a deficiency of supply, the noble earl would have found our distress was owing to that case. When the noble earl mentioned that there had been an increase of production and of consumption, would he likewise say that there had been-the necessary consequence of it-an increase of capital? No; there had been no increase of capital: there had been no increase in the quantity of lime used on the land: there had been no increase in the quantity of agricultural labour. As for the cause of our distress, we need look no further than to the circumstance, that we had been for twenty-five years engaged in war, and that we must now pay for it, aggravated as its burthen had been by a 3 H

change in the currency. While there had been a destruction of capital by this means, there had been an increase of population. This being the disease, economy and retrenchment were the only remedy.

The Earl of Darnley did not think that any legislative interference could do good. The only remedy for our distress would arise from retrenchment of expenditure and a diminution of taxation.

Earl Grey expressed the extreme disappointment with which he had listened to the noble earl, who, from figures and official documents, endeavoured to draw an inference which was contradicted by every thing in the country. He well remembered that the noble earl had, some years ago, by the production of similar documents, endeavoured to draw the inference that the Bank paper was not depreciated; he now, however acknowledged that it had been so, and no doubt the same falsification would attend his inference of the present night. The assertion of the noble earl that the continued consumption proved that the comforts of the people were not diminished, could be refuted by every man in the kingdom. Nor did he believe that there was the excess of production supposed by the noble earl; for he understood that the last crop was rather under than over the average. The causes of all the evils which the country endured, were obviously the profuse expenditure of the late war, and the burdens thereby imposed upon the country. The alteration in our currency was also a main source of the evil, for let them turn and twist it as they would, the fact was, that we had contracted in depreciated paper an immense debt, which we were unable to pay in our restored currency. The situation of the country appeared to him to be frightful. A noble friend of his had said, that we must not for a moment look at a breach of public faith. So said he. But there was an ancient law maxim, which was equally applicable to other subjects:"Nemo tenetur ad impossibile." It was difficult to repress the apprehension, that we were much in the same situation in which France, at the time of the Revolution, was declared to be by a celebrated man, namely," on the verge of bankruptcy." Distressed as the people were, and alienated from the government by a long course of the most impolitic conduct, there was nothing to which we could look

with the slightest hope of relief, but the most unsparing retrenchment. The motion was then agreed to.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.
Wednesday, February 21.

THE QUEEN-MILAN COMMISSION.] Sir John Newport presented a petition from Langholm, imploring the House to restore the Queen's name to the Liturgy, and to withdraw their confidence from set of ministers who had misled their king, insulted their Queen, and who despised the voices of nine-tenths of the honest subjects of this realm.

Sir R. Fergusson said, he would take that opportunity of making a few observations with respect to the Milan commission. When he first brought this subject before the House, the noble lord opposite said he should be perfectly ready to promote an investigation when the proper time arrived. But how had the noble lord redeemed his pledge? He now said he should be ready to meet the question, if a motion were made on his (sir R. F's.) side of the House. What a mockery was this language on the part of the noble lord, when the noble lord and his adherents were determined to oppose any proposition which came from that side of the House. When he saw a great majority of that House blindly following a minister, and disregarding the wishes of the country, it would be folly in him to submit any motion on the subject to the House.

Sir J. Mackintosh expressed his entire approbation of the conduct of his gallant friend, in declining to bring forward any motion after the late divisions in that House, divisions upon which he (sir James) forbore to make any observation. He would abstain from all reflection upon them-he would leave them to the judgment of the country and of posterity; he would only say that they fully justified the prudent resolution of his hon, and gallant friend. He knew nothing of the particulars of the Milan commission; he knew was, that a general suspicion had arisen as to their proceedings, which was not confined to any party in that House, but had extended throughout Europe. Under these circumstances he was astonished that the formed that commission, filling, as they did, most respectable stations in life, did not themselves insist upon an inquiry into

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