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return, and what had since occurred, was ing gained that object, their triumph it not fair to conclude that the object of ought to be regarded as complete. He the revolutionists was, to overthrow the was of opinion, that England had but one sovereign, and place the next heir to the of two courses to pursue. The first was crown on the throne? Under such circum- that of a silent neutrality-the other that stances, he thought the protest of the of war. The intermediate line recomEnglish government likely to be produc- mended by the noble baron, he was of tive of beneficial consequences to the go- opinion could not be adopted with advanvernment of Naples. It would tend to tage. The noble baron might compose a make them feel the necessity of adopting beautiful, moral lecture-he might proa moderate line of conduct towards fo- duce a fine form of words, a perfect and reign governments and towards persons elaborate composition; but this, however who might be obnoxious to them; and, excellent, would be useless. If it were in fine, of acting so as to convince those not written with the sword, it would prowho were dissatisfied with the means by duce no effect. No man regretted more which the revolution had been effected, than he did, the pressure of distress now that, however impure the source from experienced in this country-no man rewhich their power sprung, it was their de- gretted more than he did, the advantages termination not to use it unworthily. taken of those distresses-but when they The noble earl had complained of the ap- were told that all these distresses sprung pearance of an English fleet in the Bay from the errors of governments, in which of Naples. When he considered the cir- the people had no concern-when they cumstances of the revolution, he thought were told that all their hopes must depend the noble earl must feel that the presence upon the continuance of peace--was it to of an English fleet was necessary for the be supposed that foreign powers were protection of British interests. The noble ignorant of these things, or ignorant of lord who spoke last, complained of the the temper of the people, or of the temper British government not having expressed of parliament? These things must be its disapprobation of the aggression of the known; and when it was seen that our allies. Now, in his opinion, that disap- force was diminished from motives of probation was expressed in the circular economy, it was not to be expected that of the secretary of state addressed to the we should possess all the influence which allies. He went along with the noble belonged to us while our army was entire, mover, in expressing his abhorrence of and not a shot in Europe could be fired the principle on which the allied sove- without our permission. To him, then, reigns acted. He considered the success- it appeared, that unless the noble earl and ful progress of such a principle as de- the noble baron were prepared to propose structive to liberty throughout the world. that we should depart from the line which For what more detestable ground of we had taken, which appeared to him to policy could be supposed than this, that be that of strict neutrality, they ought the happiness of the governed was as not to wish it deviated from at all. To put nothing when weighed against the in- forth a remonstrance, and not to enforce terest, the pleasure, or the apprehensions it by the sword, would be but to expose of the party governing? He must repeat, our impaired fortunes, and our broken that the circular of our government had spirit. It was his most anxious wish to disarmed that principle of half its power avoid this, to place the parliament in harin the onset. What had been done pre-mony with the people, and to revive that cluded Austria from seeking its own aggrandisement in its war against Naples. If the march of the Austrian troops could be justified on any principle, it was this, that the government of Naples had fallen into the hands of a particular sect, whose success would be incompatible with the safety of all governments. The proceedings of the Austrians ought to be limited by the original necessity of the case. They ought only to require security, that the government of Naples should not be lodged in the hands of that sect. Hav

mutual confidence which ought to subsist between the government and the governed, and which constituted the real strength of a nation. Without that it would be in vain to read a moral lecture to the governments of the continent, and the effect of doing so would only be, to lower the character of the country and expose its weakness to the world. He hoped the noble earl would, on reflection, be disposed to withdraw his motion.

Lord Calthorpe thought the language of the circular any thing but satisfactory.

He complained of it, both for what it implied and what it expressed. The sacrifices made by this country to obtain the objects of the war, loaded as we were at its close with the fruits of war, ought to have procured for us a guarantee for the enjoyment of the blessings of peace. The disavowal of the principles put forth by the allies, which appeared in the circular, proved that sufficient care had not been taken in the negotiation to accomplish that object. The conduct of Austria was, in his opinion, such as would justify interference on the part of this country to induce her to refrain from pursuing her present line of policy.

Earl Grey said, he entirely agreed with those who maintained that it was the object, as it was the policy, of this country to preserve a strict neutrality; but he did think that the noble earl opposite had not succeeded in making it appear that any thing like strict neutrality had been maintained. He was of opinion that no such disposition had been manifested by government in her communications with the two nations principally concerned. Had there, in truth, in any single transaction that could be named, been any thing like an equal measure preserved between those two countries? The noble earl declared, that not disputing but, that the case of Naples might form an exception to that general conduct against which the allied powers were in declared hostility, all he would say was, that he would not prejudge the question; but, although the noble earl thus deprecated every thing like prejudication, his line of argument was most inconsistent with that declaration. He had promulgated a disclaimer of certain acts on the part of a foreign government, which had taken upon itself to express a disapprobation of the conduct pursued by the kingdom of Naples: and yet he now maintained, that that foreign state was justified in the manifestation of her disapprobation. As to that interference on the part of the allied sovereigns, it was one of the most flagrant acts of political injustice, one of the most enormous violations of the law of nations, that ever was committed; and the tardy disavowal of this government was made at a time when its very disapprobation of these measures could have no other effect but the encouraging the perpetrators of that violation. And this, the noble earl told them, was a strict neutrality! But when noble lords contrasted the general

measures of this government, in its free and open communications with Austria, and its recent dealings with Naples, could such conduct be construed to intend a fair and strict neutrality? He had said, that the usual intercourse between this country and Naples had ceased; and the noble earl opposite immediately expressed his disapprobation of that statement. The noble earl told their lordships, that new powers were necessary to be exhibited upon the change of the government. It was important to ascertain what the noble earl meant, and therefore he wished to ask whether sir W. A'Court still remained at Naples our accredited minister; whether he was still there vested with the full powers of his original appointment, as envoy of the Neapolitan government? But this was not all :-not only must they have an accredited agent at Naples, but the government of Naples must have one here. Now, the noble earl had said, that count Ludolph was that accredited agent at our court. Why, was it not notorious, that after the events which had changed the face of the government of Naples, count Ludolph was recalled, and the prince Cimitelli substituted in his place, as ambassador to this country? Was it not equally notorious, that prince Cimitelli was refused to be admitted to the accustomed audience, and all communication with him evaded by our government. He should like to hear from the noble earl, under what powers count Ludolph now acted to the rejection of prince Cimitelli, or whether the count Ludolph had received any new credentials? The rejection of prince Cimitelli was a direct breach of this boasted neutrality; it was such an insult to the character and independence of a nation, that only a weak state would endure. If any thing bearing the character of neutrality was contemplated by the British government, when it had an ambassador attending the conferences at Troppau, it would have deemed it essential that its accredited minister should continue without interruption to represent its interests at Naples. Under such circumstances, the British government, in the spirit of amicable representation, might have expressed its disapprobation of the proceedings at Naples as injurious to its own interests, and dangerous to the security of Europe.-The noble earl had laid considerable stress on the conduct of the Neapolitan government, in reference

to Sicily. He (earl Grey) was far from justifying either the principle of the measures pursued towards that member of the Neapolitan dominions, or of palliating the breach of that stipulation to which the noble earl alluded. Yet he must confess that he should have liked to have seen the representation to be made on that subject to the court of Naples by a British minister: he should like to have seen the protestation of the secretary of state against the forcible union of one country with another, against the prayers, the wishes, and the interest of that country. It would, indeed, be a curious and extraordinary document to see a state paper, signed Castlereagh, " remonstrating against a forced incorporating union between two divisions of the Neapolitan kingdom, on the grounds that it was effected against the wishes and the voice of the weaker, by the power and the military strength of the stronger [Hear, hear !]. Allowing that Sicily had been oppressed by Naples, the utmost power that could accrue to the allied sovereigns was, the right to remonstrate. But these sovereigns used no such pretext-they founded their aggression on different grounds. It was a dislike to the principles of the revolution, and eo nomine, they declared it dangerous to the other powers. The noble earl spoke of the secret sects and of the conduct of the army, but he (earl Grey) contended that neither constituted a good ground of interference. The noble earl laboured much on that point, and endeavoured to make out possible cases. He contended that the co-operation of the society of the Carbonari with the mal-contents in the other states of Europe justified an interference, which without that co-operation, would not be warranted. Some better proof of such cooperation, besides allegations, was essential. But even were it the 'fact, the utmost right that could accrue was, the power to remonstrate against the existence of such associations, and, if employed in administering the functions of the government, to protest against their continuance in such a capacity. It was not, however, to be presumed, that the co-operation of these sects with the discontented of other nations was encouraged by the government. Before an interference could be justified, much less aggression defended, that fact ought to have been substantiated by proof. The noble earl had said, that he did not wish to pre

judge the case, but he should be glad to know when they were ever to judge of the expediency or the necessity of interference? When were we to judge of the necessity of applying those principles of national right and public law, which it was the duty and interest of this country to maintain, and which constituted the foundation upon which the true security of nations depends? The noble earl admitted that a case might arise to which it would be his duty to apply those principles: But when would he judge of it? Would he wait till after the Austrians had occupied Naples? Would he wait till after the violence had been committed, and the aggression had taken effect, and then sit in judgment on the case; and determine, when it was too late, whether this was a violation of national law and public right? Instead of saying that we ought not to prejudge the case, it was our duty to judge, in order to prevent that scandalous violation of public right and law, the existence of which even the noble earl was compelled to admit. There was one peculiarity in the noble earl's reasoning which deserved notice. He was ready enough, without proof and without deliberation, to prejudge the question between the king and his people: but in questions between nation and nation, when the great interests of right and justice were at stake, the impartiality of the noble earl became conspicuous; then the noble earl would not prejudge, but he would sit with his hands behind him till the act of aggression had been accomplished, and it was too late to remedy the evils which had been produced. Such were the disastrous measures-such the miserable policy-by which the honour and character of this country were degraded and disgraced.-With respect to that argument of the noble earl, by which he attempted to justify the altered tone of this government to Naples, in conse quence of the change of the executive government in Naples, he begged to remind the noble earl, that it was not upon the occasion of the revolution of Naples that the substitution of the vicar-general, as representative of the king, took place. If he was not much mistaken, that substitution was first effected under our auspices, for the purpose of carrying into execu tion the constitution which had been granted to Sicily by lord William Bentinck. The king objected to that constitution; he refused to take the oaths, and

[794 it was upon that occasion that we gave to consequences which, sooner or later, our sanction to the vicar-general being would involve Europe in a war? He placed at the head of the executive go- would ask the noble baron what we should vernment, as the representative of his then have gained by that acquiescence, father. The noble baron (Ellenborough) which, for the sake of avoiding war, he had said, that when a nation thought fit now recommended? What, but the deto remonstrate in behalf of another coun- gradation and dishonour of having subtry, against any measures which were me- mitted to measures from a pusillanimous ditated by a third party, that nation should fear of consequences, which were rendered be ready to enforce its remonstrance by more certain and more ruinous by the arms. Upon these principles it could not very means we took, and the very sacribe denied, that this was the most favour- fices we made, in order to avoid them? able moment for remonstrance by those Surely, considering the amicable relawho, like the noble earl opposite, told us, tions in which we stood with Naples, we that the country never stood in so proud might have remonstrated against any ata situation who daily repeated, as a tempt to put down the people of that proof of their policy and wisdom, that the country by force, and still have retained authority of this country was never the friendship of the alliance. What was greater, or its influence in the affairs of the conduct of this country with regard Europe more universally acknowledged. to Spain, and what were the consequences When, however, the noble baron objected of that conduct? The noble earl oppoto the propriety of remonstrance, even in site would recollect, that upon his noble a case in which justice and interest de- friend (lord Holland) requesting some manded it, because our voice would be information as to a memorial of the court disregarded, and the weakness of the of Petersburgh with reference to the recountry exposed, did he not, in fact, bear volution in Spain, the noble earl stated the strongest testimony to that lamentable that a remonstrance had been made by system of policy by which the resources this government against that memorial. of this country had been so impaired, and No further motion was made in that its energies so exhausted, and its charac- House, and, what was more to the purter so degraded in the eyes of foreign na- pose, no measures had been taken by the tions, that it was no longer able to vindi- allied powers against Spain, nor had the cate its interests, and enforce its just re- remonstrance against that memorial been monstrances? But, let the noble baron attended with any consequences prejudilook to the other side of the alternative, cial to this country. He supposed he and consider how far a silent acquiescence should be called to order, as his noble in the measures now carried on by the friend had been, if he expressed any opiallied powers, for the sake of avoiding nion upon the absurdity of refusing to rehostilities, is calculated to secure us cognize the government of Spain, or any against a war. Since the commencement other country in which an iniquitous atof this debate, information of an authentic | tempt to impose upon them an arbitrary character had reached him, which an- government, had been successfully renounced that the Austrian army was ac- sisted by the co-operation of the soldiery tually advancing in three divisions, from with the people. He thought his noble three different routes upon Naples, and friend was perfectly justified in the line of that the king of Naples had issued a pro- argument which he had taken. We might clamation from Laybach dissolving the just as well refuse to recognize the revoparliament, and recommending his sub-lution which had placed the present emjects to receive the Austrians as friends. How far this was to be considered as a free, spontaneous emanation of the will of that monarch, he would not determine; but it was now certain that the die was cast, and that Naples would in all probability be shortly occupied by Austria. He would ask the noble baron, whether looking to the character of the House of Austria, and the general situation and interests of Europe, the occupation, of Naples by Austria was not likely to lead

peror of Russia upon the throne; for it could not be denied that he ascended the throne in consequence of the murder of his sovereign, his father, though he trusted the present emperor had no share in it. If we objected to a revolution because it had been produced by a mutinous soldiery, surely we were equally bound to object to a revolution which had been effected by a foul and atrocious murder, and we might say to the emperor of the Russias

Though we are not disposed to dispute

your right to the throne, yet we will hold no amicable intercourse with you until an expiatory sacrifice has been made for the crime which placed you on the throne by the punishment of its authors." If such were not our language, we should abstain from it only because we had one language for the weak and another for the strong only because we were ready to denounce even the most justifiable resistance in the former, and to encourage the most tyrannical aggression in the latter. He certainly felt that the noble earl opposite had completely failed in attempting to justify a course of policy which was inconsistent with the interests, and degrad. ing to the character of the country. He could not accede to the request made by the noble baron to withdraw this motion; and, as in the present temper of the House, and particularly after what had fallen from the noble earl, he saw no prospect of succeeding in the object of that motion, he would not trouble their lordships by pressing it to a division.

The question was put and negatived.

HOUSE OF COMMONS,

Monday, February 19. HULL POOR RATES BILL.] Mr. Sykes said, that as much misconception prevailed on the subject of this bill, he would, in order to give time for the correction of that misconception, move, "That the bill be read a second time this day se'nnight."

Mr. Huskisson felt himself bound to oppose the motion. A number of persons interested in the measure were waiting in town, and it would be to them a great inconvenience to postpone the second reading. He had the strongest objections to the bill; though it was introduced as a private bill, it yet involved important public questions, and principles which were quite new and which would go to affect the general property of the country. It was agreed on all hands that the poor rates were an evil which ought to be repressed. The poor rates were a cancer which spread throughout the country; and it was not for parliament to encourage the growth of an evil so monstrous. The object of the bill was to subject a species of property to poor rates, which heretofore stood independent of that tax: what was this but an attempt to extend the evil? The bill was an attempt to introduce a tax in the port of Hull, which did❘

not exist before. The tax was a most objectionable one, because it would go to affect ships which might be lying idle, as well as those which were employed. If the principle which the bill meant to establish was to have any operation at all, it ought to have a general operation; but a principle more fraught with danger he could not well imagine. He would move as an amendment, "That the bill be read a second time that day six months."

Mr. Sykes said, that the principle of his bill was by no means new. Legislative measures, similar in principle, had been adopted in Sunderland. The same thing was done with respect to Scarborough, Whitby, and Poole.

Mr. Frankland Lewis felt himself bound to oppose the extension of the poor rates to the shipping, and he did so, because it was the acknowledged tendency of the poor laws to swallow up all the property in the kingdom, and therefore it was necessary, by every possible means, to guard against their extension to any species of property not hitherto within their reach. There was no danger so certain, so inevitable, unless some remedy were shortly hit upon, as that the poor laws would, by degrees, swallow up every species of property that was liable to its operation. Would they, then, admit the dangerous principle of extending their effects by a measure of a private nature, which professed to confine its operation to a particular place, but which would establish a precedent for similar measures in every other port in the kingdom. One great misfortune in the system of poor-rates was, that it wore the appearance of humanity, whilst it produced real hardship and severity. He felt convinced that the poor-rates caused, in a great measure, the extent of public misery, at the same time, he did not mean to throw out the wild notion that the system could be entirely got rid of. The subject was one to be touched with gentleness; and so it had always been treated. The principle of the poor rates was this, that every parish should support its poor as long as it had the means; but the present bill went to subject to a tax property which was not now rated. He must therefore oppose the Bill.

After some further conversation, Mr. Huskisson consented to withdraw his amendment, and the bill was ordered to be read a second time on the 27th instant.

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