a

1791, by about 7000 men; but when he to be kept up within the realm was not reflected upon the enormous increase of more than would be found requisite to our colonial possessions, and the amount guard against such improvident dilapidaconsequently required for foreign service, tions. he could not regard an increase of 7000 With regard to the difference in the as exceeding the fair proportion of what amount of expenditure between the prethat increase might be expected to be. sent period and that of 1791, there were The House should recollect, that in pro- circumstances connected th our foreign portion as our colonial force was inevita. and domestic policy which at once acbly augmented, in the same necessary counted for that difference, and justified proportion must be the increase of our it. He presumed no one would venture depôt at home, from which the former to say that our new colonies were not was to be supplied. They were also to worth keeping, and if they were worth look to the possibility, though, he hoped, keeping, then they must be garrisoned. not to the probability, of our army in If the hon. gentlemen opposite were preFrance being called into action. That pared to affirm the contrary of that prothere was a possibility of such an event position, let them do so distinctly and taking place, was obvious, from the very explicitly; let them lay their finger upon nature of the engagements under which this or that colony and say, here is one that army remained in France ; for if there which is of no value to this country; or were no such possibility, why was the here is another which requires more exarmy stationed there at all? In such a pense to retain it than it is worth. Let case, therefore, reinforcements to a consi- them follow up that doctrine by an address derable extent might be required, and to the Crown, and if the Crown should would it be wise or prudent, or even eco- concur in the wisdom and policy of their nomical, to reduce our army at home so suggestion, it would then be for the golow, as to be unable, upon the emergency vernment to say to such colonies, so proof the moment, to afford those reinforce- scribed, you must either provide for your ments? The hon. and learned gentleman own expenditure, or you must transfer who spoke last, said it was perfectly ridi- your allegiance to some other potentate, culous to suppose that any increase of our who has more power and more wealth naval arsenals and magazines should re

than Great Britain to defend and support quire an increase of military force to pro- you. But, until that direct course was tect them in time of peace; that a maga- taken, and until parliament had so prozine of a mile long need not be more ex. nounced itself with respect to our new tensively guarded than one of only a fur colonies, he apprehended it was incumlong; but that sort of argument, if indeed bent upon his majesty's ministers, in the it might be called an argument, carried its solemn and conscientious discharge of own refutation along with it; for if the their duties, to prepare such establishobject were only such as the hon. and ments of military force, as they thought learned gentleman himself supposed, necessary for the defence of those posnamely, to secure a magazine from the sessions. If they did not do that, or if, depredations of a midnight robber, still it from any base and mean desire to court was obvious, that the more you increased popularity, they were to put those valuathe line of that building, the more men ble colonies in hazard, and if any disastrous you would require to watch it in different consequences were to ensue from their parts. But the House would commit a neglect, they would incur an awful respongross blunder, if they limited their views sibility, and he would venture to say, that only to the supposition of the hon. and the hon. and learned gentleman opposite, learned gentleman, It should be re- would not be the last person in that House membered, that a great many different to pour down upon ministers the torrent works for the defence of the country had of his invective and accusation [Hear, been constructed, and after having in hear!). curred the expense of erecting those The plain question, then, for the House works, would it be a very economical plan to consider was, whether they would reto suffer them to go into a state of dilapi- duce all the military establishments of the dation and decay, in order to be put to country below their just level, and whethe same expense again whenever an- ther, if they did so, the savings would other occasion should arise to render bear any comparison to the injury that them pecessary ? The force now proposed might be done? For after all, even if the

plans of retrenchment so loudly called for army in the funds necessary for the supwere adopted, the diminution of expen- port of various charitable institutions of a diture would not be so great as the coun- military character. These two millions, try and that House seemed to imagine. however, were likewise included in the Would, it therefore, be a wise or expe- general estimates for the army for the dient course, under those circumstances, current year; but if they were deducted to abdicate the high rank we now main together with the one million which, as tained in Europe, to take our station he had already stated, would cease to be among secondary powers, and confine a charge upon the public after the present ourselves entirely to our own island ? He year, the aggregate amount would be would again repeat, that the question was reduced under six millions. It was to be not whether they should carry into effect considered also, when comparing this such diminutions of the military establish- peace establishment of six millions with the ments of the country as would save the peace establishment of 1791, that since people from the income tax, for he con- that period a very great, increase of pay tended that no possible reductions in those to every department of the army had establishments could accomplish that end; taken place. The pay of the soldier had but whether they should compel the been doubled, that being now one shilling Crown to abandon all our colonial pos- a day, which used to be sixpence. The sessions, the fertile sources of our com- pay of the officers also had been raised, mercial wealth, and whether we should though not exactly in the same propordescend from that high and elevated sta- tion; and a variety of regimental allowantion which it had cost us so much labour, ces had been granted. All those different so much blood, and so much treasure to augmentations had been submitted to parattain (Hear, hear!] ? He wished also to liament, and had received its deliberate remind the House of a circumstance which sanction; and he must say, that as far as was constantly overlooked, though it ought it had fallen to his share to propose those to be always borne in mind. The present augmentations, he had always found the estimates were not to be regarded as the liberality and benevolence of parliament estimates for a permanent peace establish- disposed to outstrip the measure of allowment. They were, in fact, no such thing. ance which the government thought it They referred to a sort of intermediate prudent or necessary to propose. When, state between peace and war. Of the therefore, all those circumstances were 9,800,000!. which were to be voted for taken into consideration, and all those dethose establishments, one million was ex. ductions were made which distinguished clusively appropriated to expenses which the present period from that of 1791, he would be incurred this year, and not the was convinced that the proposed peace next: it was to be applied to those land establishment was one which could not forces which would be reduced in the justly be regarded as stretching beyond course of the year, to the embodied militia, what the interest of the country imperiand including also the charge for foreign ously demanded. He would not trespass corps, the whole of which was to be re- longer on the attention of the House, but duced. Some of those were already re- should reserve himself for any further exduced, and others were in progress of re-planations which might be necessary, when duction. · The House, therefore, even they went into the committee. upon the face of the estimates then before Mr. Ponsonby said, that as 'every gentlethem, might calculate upon the diminution man must be satisfied it would be impossiof one entire million after the lapse of the ble to bring the important debate then present year.

before the House to a close that night, There was another consideration also, he should move the adjournment of it. which had been very properly urged by Lord Castlereagh was anxious that an his right hon. friend. Even if every officer extensive and minute scrutiny should be and man composing that part of the Bri- applied to the estimates, as the fullest distish army, which it was intended to keep cussion and examination would, he was up, were annihilated to-morrow morning convinced, only tend to establish the wisthere would still remain a charge of up- dom and just application of the policy on wards of two millions, which had no con- which they were framed. Ministers were nexion whatever with the proposed es- desirous of nothing so much as an investi. tablishments, but which would be absorbed gation, which he confidently anticipated, in the half-pay, in the gratuities to the would redound to their credit.

+

The motion for adjourning the debate to country to its lowest possible scale,and by the next day was then agreed to.

resorting to retrenchment and economy, the two best features of finance, except

those other measures now become indisHOUSE OF COMMONS.

pensably necessary, namely the checking Tuesday, February 27.

the extravagance of the court, and the PETITIONS AGAINST THE PROPERTY suppressing the corruptions and overgrown Tax.] Petitions against the Property patronage of the government. He parTax were this day presented from Kin- ticipated in their just apprehensions of cardine, St. Mary Whitechapel, Oxford, danger to their finances and their liberties Wantage, Tavistock, Malton, York, Roys- from the large military establishments in ton, Boston, &c.

contemplation of ministers, and their conMr. Brand, on presenting a petition from stitutional and well-founded jealousy of a the inhabitants of the parishes bordering vast standing army, at all times the fear of on Hertfordshire, Cambridgeshire, Essex, good men, and the ready instruments of bad and Bedfordshire, said, it stated the great He was astonished at the obstinacy and distress that prevailed, of which taxation pertinacity of the chancellor of the exchewas the cause, and of which the reduc

quer. He was surprised, too, at his shorttion of taxation could be the only remedy. sighted policy in shaking the reliance of The petition proceeded to pray the House the country, on the promise of ministers, to take such measures as would put an and on the word of parliament, in the end to that odious, inquisitorial, and de- event of having to draw largely on the retestable measure the property tax, a mea- sources and efforts of the nation, on future sure so destructive of that constitution exigencies. He complained of the chanc which their forefathers had bled to main- cellor of the exchequer pressing this great tain. He had trespassed on the time of subject with such indecent haste through the House in describing the nature of the the House, with so little respect to the petition that he might avoid the errors voice and feelings of the people, and with and misrepresentations so prevalent on the such ungrateful return for their unexsubject.

ampled patience in the time of need and Mr. Madocks in presenting a petition peril

. The chancellor of the exchequer from Boston, insisted on the entire con. had said it was necessary to get the bill tents of it being read. It was signed, he into the House, without loss of time, besaid, by a number of persons, all of great cause the 6th of April was so near at hand. respectability, and the signatures would Why was not parliament summoned sooner have been much more numerous had the to take these two great questions into full petitioners not been afraid of being too consideration, namely, the property tax, late. He was directed by his constituents and the amount of the standing army. -especially charged-to give every sup. He thought the disposition shown by

port in his power to their petition, and ministers to consult parliament as little as to lose no opportunity of accomplishing possible, their proneness to get the counits object, namely, that of preventing the try into difficulties, and their practice of continuance or renewal of the income tax húrrying these measures through the House the most odious burthen that was ever at so late a period of the year, without due imposed on this or any other country-a deliberation and information, was a system burthen to be submitted to only in cases of that ought to be resisted and amended, imperious necessity in time of war, and to and that parliament ought to be considered be discontinued on the first recurrence of any thing rather than a mere registry of peace, even though the faith of parliament their edicts, and their ready instrument did not stand, as in the present instance, for laying burthens on the nation. Surely, so solemnly pledged to that effect. He a main part of the functions of the House obeyed his constituents, not only from a of Commons was, to cherish the industry due attention to their wishes, but from a of the people, to better their condition, full conviction of the propriety of their encourage knowledge and improvement, prayer, the justness of their complaints, to foster genius and reward merit in every the extent of their distresses, and the rea- department of the state, and in every call. sonableness of their view, as to the vari- ing of human life. For these important ous modes of relief therein stated. He objects the great council of the nation was felt, with the petitioners, that much might instituted, and it ought to have time and be done by reducing the expenditure of the opportupity to sit and deliberate upon these important subjects, the means of but it was a check equally to the agriculglory in peace and of strength in war. tural, manufacturing, and commercial inThe hon. gentleman said, that the case of dustry of the people. It was the unjust his constituents, and the people in the confounder of ephemeral profits with perneighbourhood of Boston, was peculiarly petual wealth, the blight of professional hard, as it regarded the income tax. So talent, and the scourge of 'stipendiary much land in that district had of late years genius and labour. It was to be hoped been broughtinto cultivation for the benefit the House would imperatively interfere of the state, and for its demands in time with the obstinacy of ministers, that they of need, that in the year 1802, although would not compromise the faith of parliathe port of Boston exported 90,000 quar- ment, nor abuse the confidence of the ters of oats, and 8,000 of wheat, yet in the people, but that they would in gratitude, year 1812, only ten years after, she ex- prevent them from being ground to the ported 360,000 of oats, and 32,000 of bone, in return for their patience, their wheat, being an increase of fourfold in ten spirit, their loyalty, and their valour. Mr. years. The capital and industry neces- M. stated a case of a farmer being sold up sary to bring about so favourable a result to pay the King's taxes; the produce of to the resources of the country, were no the distress went to discharge the landdoubt embarked in these useful enter- lord's and tenant's income tax, when, in prises under a confidence in the word of fact, the landlord had obtained no rent parliament, that on the return of peace nor the tenant made any profit. He wished, ihe income tax paid on these lands, to the before he concluded, to ask ministers three amount of 17] per cent. would cease, even questions, which he thought they might when the present low price of grain, and answer without any violent injury to the the great and sudden fall in the price of public service-1st, Whether under the the produce of land were not anticipated. new income tax, the landlord was to pay But now, under the extreme depression any tax, if he received no rent ? 2dly, of the land in all respects, was it not in- Was the tenant to pay any tax if he made cumbent on parliament to keep their faith no profit? 3dly, Was the tax to continue with those spirited agriculturists, those one or two years more positively? true practical patriots, and not permit their Mr. Methuen observed, that without capitals to be deteriorated, their spirits some modification, the property tax was broken, and their lands to return to the quite out of the question. "He believed, barren and drowned state in which they in his conscience, that the country bad had been for centuries? He hoped they not power to bear it. He objected to it would listen to the petitioners, and not to on two grounds; first, that it was a breach be deaf to the prayer of the nation. He of faith towards the people on the part of wished the House to have a return of all government; secondly, that in many cases those farmers and families who had been it was a tax on no income-a tax, not on sold up to pay the King's taxes, and who profit, but on absolute loss. An hon. were reduced to poverty and emigration. member had said, that it was not a tax on Last year, where it took fifty bushels of the poor. He wished to ask that hon. wheat to pay the King's taxes, it now re- member, when gentlemen received no quired more than one hundred. Would rents from their estates, and when tenanta parliament, then, be deaf to the peti- were distrained, how the labourers were tioners ? Would it not turn its attention to to find work, and how the paupers were the great evils of a suddenly contracted to be prevented from starving The arcurrency? Would this House not do gument of the right hon. gentleman, desomething on the subject of poor-rates and rived from the expediency of not pressing tythes, those great checks to public pros- on the money market, might be very good perity? In fact, in addition to the 171 in theory, but it was very bad in practice. per cent. income tax, the landed interest In fact, the measure, if persevered in, in paid all the direct taxes to the full, and as its present state, would ultimately be principal consumers, a greater part of the much more injurious to the money marindirect burthens. They maintained the ket than any abandonment of it could be. poor and the clergy, kept up the roads and Mr. Brougham saw that it was in vain bridges, and provided buildings and esta- to expect any answer from the gentlemen blishments for all the civil wants and ne- opposite. As his right hon. friend (Mr. cessities of the country. The income tax Tierney) had said the other night, their was not only a system of state inquisition; infirmity was dumbness. If what had

been urged by the two hon. members who were spoken of, he had to observe, that had last spoken failed to open their these could not be made till the bill had mouths, he almost despaired of success in been brought in; and when it was in prodoing so; yet he would make another at- gress he should not be wanting in his duty tempt on the subject. He could not help by failing to attend to the suggestions suggesting to the right hon. gentleman, which might be thrown out.

As to hurryfor his own sake, and for the sake of the ing of the measure, which had been comgovernment of which he was the financial plained of, it was proper to remark, that organ in that House, and for the sake of if the House waited to receive all the pethe peace and tranquillity of the country, titions which might be sent up, they to reconsider the propriety of hurrying would probably wait till the latter end of this odious measure through parliament. next month, as till then it was probable Day after day intelligence reached the these proceedings would not terminate ; metropolis of meetings in the country ap- and if they were to do this, what time pointed to be held, some so late as the would remain for carrying a measure 8th of March. All, however, would be through the House, which ought to be in vain, if the right hon. gentleman perse- complete before the 5th of April? In anvered in his intention. Viewing this ques- swer to the questions put by an hon. gention as one of no ordinary description, but tleman opposite, he begged to say, that as an attempt on the part of his majesty's the regulations which were suggested by government to stifle that voice which, if the two first of them, could only be proonce raised, neither they nor those whom perly considered in the committee. It they served dare oppose, he would frankly would be for the House to introduce such and candidly forewarn the right hon. gen- modifications when the bill reached that tleman, that he would do that which on stage, if they should appear proper to be no other occasion he would be induced to adopted. With respect to the questions do,-he would have recourse to those pri- as to the duration of the tax, he had no vileges which every member possessed, for hesitation in saying it was intended to the purpose of interrupting and staying propose that it should continue for two the business before them. He considered years, and this he thought would be more this as a just, fair, and necessary proceed satisfactory, than if it were stated that its ing; and though no other member should duration was to be limited to one, as if stand by him, he would use all the means renewed from year to year, it would wear which the forms of parliament put into bis more of the aspect of a permanent tax. hands, for the best object for which they From the present situation of the country, were framed by their ancestors—the pro- there was reason to hope that at the end tection of the rights of the subject. The of two years it would not be necessary to right hon.gentleman might attempt to bring renew it. If much discontent had been forward his proposition on Friday, but he excited out of doors on that subject, it should be immediately met by the question arose, not from the tax itself, but from of adjournment, and that for the avowed the gross misrepresentations which had purpose of stemming at the outset this at- gone abroad, and from the unfounded tempt to smother the voice of the people assertion which had been made, that -[Hear, hear! from all parts of the to renew it would be a breach of the House].

good faith of parliament. He contended, The Chancellor of the Exchequer was that in renewing it there would be no satisfied, that whenever the hon. and breach of good faith. The words with learned gentleman opposite, or any other which the act had formerly closed " and member, might come down with a studied no longer,” which declared the tax should design to interrupt the proceedings of the terminate with the war, had been omitted House, the House would know how to in the act of last year. protect itself, and how to assert its own Sir Samuel Romilly, adverting to the dignity. Confident of this, he should nei- statement made by the chancellor of the ther fear nor shrink from any measure to exchequer, that there was no time to which the hon. and learned gentleman delay the proceeding, because the existing might think it his duty to have recourse. act would expire on the 5th of April, obWith respect to the questions which had served, that that was the fault of his mabeen asked, he had only waited for the jesty's ministers, who had thought proper bringing up of the petition to reply to to call parliament together at a period them. As to the modifications which later than that recollected by any person