1688-9. from fo much of their own Vote as your Lordships have agreed Anno 4 Jac. . unto, That King James the fecond has abdicated the Government, and that the 'Throne is thereby vacant; fo that if they should admit your Lordships Amendment, That he hath only deferted the Government; yet even thence it would follow that the Throne is vacant as to King James the fecond deferting the Government, being in true Conftruction deferting the Throne. Secondly, The Commons conceive they need not prove unto your Lordships, that as to any other Perfon, the Throne is alfo vacant; your Lordships (as they conceive) have already admitted it, by your addreffing to the Prince of Orange the 25th of December laft, to take upon him the Adminiftration of public Affairs, both Civil and Military; and to take into his Care the Kingdom of Ireland, till the meeting of this Convention. In purfuance of fuch Letters, and by your Lordships renewing the fame Addrefs to his Highness, (as to public Affairs, and the Kingdom of Ireland) fince you met, and by appointing Days of public Thanksgivings to be obferved throughout the whole Kingdom, all which the Commons conceive do imply that it was your Lordships Opinion, that the Throne was vacant, and to fignify fo much to the People of this Kingdom. Thirdly, It is from those who are upon the Throne of England (when there are any fuch) from whom the People of England ought to receive protection; and to whom, for that Caufe, they owe the Allegiance of Subjects; but there being none now from whom they expect regal Protection, and to whom, for that Cause, they owe the Allegiance of Subjects, the Commons conceive, the Throne is vacant. Refolved, That the Earl of Wiltshire do go up to the Lords, A Conference to defire a Conference upon the fubject Matter of the Amend- with the Lords ments. defir'd and The Earl of Wiltshire reports, That he having attended granted. the Lords, to defire a Conference, they had given Anfwer, That they did confent to a Conference immediately in the painted Chamber. Refolved, That the Committee, to whom it was referred to prepare Heads of Reafons at a Conference with the Lords, be the Managers of the faid Conference. Mr. Hampden reports from the Committee appointed to manage the Conference with the Lords, That they had attended the Lords at the Conference, and communicated unto their Lordships the Reasons why this House doth not concur with their Lordships in the said Amendments. Feb. 5. Mr. Hampden reports from the Conference with Mr. Hampden's the Lords, that the Earl of Nottingham spoke to this effect: Report thereon, That the Lords had defired this Conference with the I Commons ano 4 Jac. II. Commons, that they might be as happily united to the Com1688-9. mons in Opinion, as they are infeparable in their Intereft; and that they are, at this time, uneafy that they cannot concur with the Commons in every thing; because it is of fo great a concern to the Nation, and from fo great and wife a Body. That he then delivered what the Lords had done in reference to the fubject Matter of the laft Conference, and faid, That the Lords did infift upon the firft Amendment of the Vote of the Houfe of Commons of the 28th of January laft, instead of the Word abdicated to have the Word deferted. Firft, Because the Lords do not find, that the Word abdicated is a Word known to the common Law of England,, and the Lords hope the Commons will agree to make ufe of fuch Words only, whereof the meaning may be understood according to Law, and not of fuch as will be liable to doubtful Interpretations. Secondly, Becaufe in the moft common acceptation of the civil Law, Abdication is a voluntary exprefs Act of Renunciation, which is not in this Cafe, and doth not follow from the Premiffes, That King James the Second, by having withdrawn himself, after having endeavoured to fubvert the Conftitution of the Government, by breaking the Origi nal Contract between King and People, and having violated the fundamental Laws, may be more properly faid to have abdicated than deferred.' He faid, the Lords did infift on the fecond Amendment, to leave out the Words, And that the Throne is vatant, for "this Reason: For that although the Lords have agreed, that the King has deferted the Government, and therefore have made Application to the Prince of Orange, to take upon him the Adminiftration of the Government, and thereby to provide for the Peace and Safety of the Kingdom, yet there can be no other inference drawn from thence, but only that the exercife of the Government by King James the Second is ceased: fo as the Lords were, and are willing, to fecure the Nation against the return of the faid King into this Kingdom; but not that there was either fuch an Abdication by him, or fuch a Vacancy in the Throne, as that the Crown was thereby become elective, to which they cannot agree; I. Bécaufe, by the Conftitution of the Government, the Monarchy is hereditary, and not elective. II. Because no Act of the King alone can bar, or deftroy, the Right of his Heirs to the Crown; and therefore in anfwer to the third Reafon alledged by the Houfe of Commons, if the Throne be vacant of King James the Second, Allegiance is due to fuch Perfon as the Right of < Succeffion doth belong to." The The Question being put, that this Houfe do agree with the Anno 4 Jac. I Lords in the faid, firft Amendment, It paffed in the Negative. The Queftion being put, that this Houfe do agree with the Lords in the faid fecond Amendment; The Houfe divided.. The Yea's go forth. The Tellers for the Yea's, Sir Jofeph Tredenham, and Mr. Gwyn, 151. The Fellers for the No's, Mr. Colt, and Mr. Herbert, 282.. 1688-9, Refolved, That a free Conference be defired with the Lords A free Confer upon the fubject matter of the laft Conference. Ordered, That it be referred unto Sir Robert Howard, Mr. Polexfen, Mr. Paul Foley, Mr. Serjeant Maynard, Mr. Serjeant Holt, Lord Falkland, Sir, George Treby, Mr. Sommers, Mr. Garraway, Mr. Bofcawen, Sir Thomas Littleton, Mr. Palmer, Mr. Hampden, Sir Henry Capel, Sir Thomas Lee, Mr. Sacheverel, Major Wildeman, Colonel Birch, Mr. Ayres, Sir Richard Temple, Sir Henry Goodrick, Mr. Waller, Sir John Guyfe, Το manage the Conference. Ordered, That Mr. Dolben do go up to the Lords, and defire a free Conference with the Lords upon the Subject Matter of the laft Conference. rence refolv'd Mr. Dolben reported, That he having (according to Mr. Dolben, the Order of this House) attended the Lords, to defire a free Conference with their Lordships, upon the Subject Matter of the laft Conference, they had agreed to a free Conference presently in the Painted Chamber. And the Managers went to the free Conference in the Painted Chamber. Which was thus open'd by Mr. Hampden. My Lords, the Commons have defired this free Confe- Mr. Hampden, rence from your Lordships upon the Subject Matter of the laft Conference, that they may make appear unto your Lordfhips, that it is not without fufficient reafon, that they are induced to maintain their own Vote, to which your Lordfhips have made fome Amendments; and that they cannot agree to thofe Amendments made by your Lordflips for the fame Reasons. My Lords, the Commons do very readily agree with your Lordships, That it is a matter of the greatest concernment to the Kingdom in general, its future Peace, and happy Government, and the Proteftant Intereft, both at home and abroad, that there be a good Iffue and Determination of the Business now in Debate between both Houses, and as speedy a one as can confift with the doing of it in the best manner. This way of intercourfe between both Houses Anno 4 Jac. II. 1688-9. Houfes by free Conference, where there is full liberty of objecting, anfwering, and replying, the Commons think the beft means to attain this End, and to maintain a good Correfpondence between both Houfes, which is fo neceffary at all times, but more especially in the prefent Conjuncture; this, my Lords, will bring Honour and Strength to the Foundation that fhall be laid after all our late Convulsions, and discourage our Enemies from attempting to undermine it. It is true, my Lords, the prefent Difference between your Lordships and the Commons is only about a few Words; but the Commons think their Words fo significant to the purpose for which they are ufed, and fo proper to the Cafe unto which they are applied, that in fo weighty a Matter as that now in Debate, they are by no means to be ed with. part The Word abdicated, the Commons conceive, is of larger Signification than the Word your Lordships are pleafed to ufe defert; but not too large to be applied to all the Recitals in the Beginning of the Commons Vote, to which they meant it fhould be applied. Nor ought it to be reftrained to a voluntary express Refignation, only in Word or Writing, Overt-Acts there are that will be fignificant enough to amount to it. My Lords, that the Common Law of England is not acquainted with the Word, it is from the Modefty of our Law, that it is not willing to fuppofe there fhould be any unfortunate Occafion of making ufe of it: And we would have been willing, that we fhould never have had fuch an occafion as we have, to have recourfe to it. Your Lordfhips next Amendment is, that your Lordships have left out the last Words in the Commons Vote, And that the Throne is thereby vacant. My Lords, the Commons conceive it is a true Proposition, and That the Throne is vacant; and they think, they make it appear that this is no new Phrafe; neither is it a Phrafe that perhaps fome of the old Records may be Strangers to; or not well acquainted with: But they think it not chargeable with the Confequence that your Lordships have been pleased to draw from it, That it will make the Crown of England become elective. If the Throne had been full, we know your Lordships would have affigned that as a Reafon of your Difagreement, by telling us who filled it; and it would be known by fome public Royal Act, which might notify to the People in whom the Kingly Government refided; neither of which hath been done; and yet your Lordships will not allow the 'T'hrone to be vacant. • My 1688-g. My Lords, I am unwilling to detain your Lordships Anno 4 Jac. II. longer, from what may be better faid for your Lordships Satisfaction in these Matters, by those whofe Province it is: I am to acquaint your Lordships, that the Commons do agree, it is an Affair of very great Importance. Here are other Gentlemen that are appointed to manage this Conference, and will give their Affiftance to bring it, we hope, to a happy Conclufion, in the Agreement of both Houses, in this fo very confiderable a point.' My Lords, what is appointed me to fpeak to, is your Mr. Somer Lordships firft Amendment, by which the Word abdicated, in the Commons Vote, is changed into the Word deferted; and I am to acquaint your Lordships what fome of the grounds are that induced the Commons to infift upon the Word abdicated, and not to agree to your Lordships A mendment. ift, The firft Reafon your Lordships are pleafed to deliver, as for your changing the Word is, that the Word abdicated your Lordships do not find, is a Word known to the common Law of England; and therefore ought not to be used: And the next is, that the common Application of the Word amounts to a voluntary exprefs Act of Renunciation, which (your Lordships fay) is not in this cafe, nor what will follow from the Premiffes. My Lords, as to the firft of thefe Reafons, if it be an Objection, that the Word abdicated hath not a known fenfe in the common Law of England, there is the fame Objection against the Word deferted; for there can be no Authority, or Book of Law produced, wherein any determined Senfe is given to the Word deferted: So that Lordships firft Reafon hath the fame force against your own Amendment, as it hath against the Term used by the Commons. your • The Words are both Latin Words, and used in the beft Authors, and both of a known Signification; their Meaning is very well understood, tho' it be true, their Mean ing be not the fame: The Word abdicate doth naturally and properly fignify entirely to renounce, throw off, difown, relinquish any Thing or Perfon, fo as to have no farther to do with it; and that whether it be done by exprefs Words or in Writing, (which is the fenfe your Lordships put upon it, and which is properly called Refignation or Ceffion) or, by doing fuch Acts as are inconfiftent with the holding or retaining of the thing; which the Commons take to be the prefent cafe, and therefore made choice of the Word abdicate, as that which they thought did, above all others, moft properly exprefs that Meaning: And in this latter fenfe it is taken by others, and that it is the true Significa TOME II. 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